I did that too at some ends of areas when the tornado couldn't be used. It's really fast and can be made to last longer by jumping, but I found the tornado still moves faster. At least, the screen scrolls quite a few more pixels each frame with full speed tornado, enough so that it's faster overall, I think.
Since your version (PRG1) didn't desync while I played the movie on a PRG0 rom, I think there is not much difference...
Strangely enough, my PRG0 movie does seem to desync on a PRG1 rom.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
What, thinking of studying it so you can work on a new run? :)
Gosh, I don't know if qFox would still be around.
I'm back! now. That ISP is indeed history. My current website (and for as long I'll live ;)) is qfox.nl (english) or kuvos.nl (dutch), whichever language you prefer. But I wasn't replying for spam.
I'm going to continue my Kirby run. I'm at 3.5 now and um, well nothing new to report I suppose.
Whats this whirl being faster then wheel all about? Doesn't the tornado have a timeout and doesn't that make it simply not even close to attractive?
Anyways, my current run can be found here. If anyone could please check whether this run doesn't desync for everybody else, that would be much appreciated :p
There are a few points I don't like (at some point I take a powerup that could be avoided, etc) but overall I think it's pretty good. Have hardly anything to compare it by though (well, it smashes Bisqwits vid on any level but he already knew that would happen).
Note that I've tried to use some other skills (like the sword to kill the bug semi boss in 3.2, it is nice) but overall its still wheel-fireball-hijump.
Also I seem to be stuck in a 30fps famtasia version again, which forces me to manually edit the level ending to reach the lowest part (right now, in game, i can only get to 5! simply unacceptable).
Also, I left myself with hijump on 3.5 finish, which is useless in 3.6 so I'm thinking of taking the laser, for fun and for usefullness (kinda).
First of all, I would love to see a speedrun of this game, and I think it's great that you are working on it! (so please don't get me wrong)
I just watched your WIP, and actually, I think it's pretty bad...
It felt like watching Bisqwit's run, and that run can be improved by minutes! I'm sure your version is faster than Bisqwit's version, but I think your version still can be improved by minutes.
You might want to check the wip nitsuja posted, and the wips I posted. I haven't timed anything, but I'm pretty sure, I'm over a minute faster after only 2 worlds than your version. You should check them out! I would give you the following tips:
- Start a new version, played on FCEU
- Use a (U) version of the game, instead of an (E) version (I know Bisqwit played on a (E) version, but it shouldn't matter, since the run will be improved by a lot)
- Use frame advance
- Check out all posibilities from different weapons, and test all weapons on all levels to see what's fastest (of course, you can skip stuff that's obviously not faster)
- Constantly release wips, so people can check if you're heading in the right direction
I think I can produce something simular to your run in a very short period of time, while I took pretty long on making my wip. You should make sure your wip is faster than mine (nitsuja showed that's possible, with the use of tornado... but also consider hammer as a weapon!)...
That aside, you might want to consider doing an easier game first... this game is pretty hard, and pretty long.
===============================
I don't mean to be cruel, sorry if it seemed that way :)
But please consider what I wrote... I wish you the best of luck on whatever you decide to do!
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
No actually, I appreciate this. Like I said, I didn't have much to fight. I'm gonna have to look for a set of new kirby roms though. The two roms I have desync both you and nitsuja's run (now called wips?).
I see the emulator page 'recommends' fceu now, does that mean bisqwit allows and turns speedruns with this emu into vids as well? If I can use fceu with all the features famtasia is missing I'm certain I can be faster as well :p
On that note, why isn't either of your runs being posted on the website? It still has the first of Bisqwits..
I must admit your headon approach for 1.1 took me by surprise, your video desyncs at the miniboss fight in 1.2 so I can't really tell how it changes further up in the game.
Btw, I accidentally discovered an easter egg today. In 1.2, at the warp star, if you move the star into the screen, then move a little back so the star is just outside of screen, and move right towards the star again, the star will vanish and you can move further to the right. The name "HAL" will be shown written in blocks. Useless but funny. (Ok, maybe old news, but I can't remember ever reading about this one).
So yeah, thanks for crushing my attempt, I'll be back ;)
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
And if I start over, which one's better? (U) PR0 or PR1? I still have a choice... :)
I've seen nitsuja's run now, your run (Baxter) desyncs on any rom I've tried (12, to be precise).
No actually, I appreciate this. Like I said, I didn't have much to fight. I'm gonna have to look for a set of new kirby roms though. The two roms I have desync both you and nitsuja's run (now called wips?).
"Work In Progress". Yeah, I think that term gets overused here.
qFox wrote:
I see the emulator page 'recommends' fceu now, does that mean bisqwit allows and turns speedruns with this emu into vids as well? If I can use fceu with all the features famtasia is missing I'm certain I can be faster as well :p
Wow, you've been gone a while.
qFox wrote:
On that note, why isn't either of your runs being posted on the website? It still has the first of Bisqwits..
Because they aren't finished! :P
qFox wrote:
Btw, I accidentally discovered an easter egg today. In 1.2, at the warp star, if you move the star into the screen, then move a little back so the star is just outside of screen, and move right towards the star again, the star will vanish and you can move further to the right. The name "HAL" will be shown written in blocks. Useless but funny. (Ok, maybe old news, but I can't remember ever reading about this one).
Yeah, that's pretty well-known now.
qFox wrote:
And if I start over, which one's better? (U) PR0 or PR1? I still have a choice... :)
I don't know, but you also have a choice of whether to skip the intro faster with the reset button since FCEU lets you record it. I think reset tricks are cool, but other people might think they're just cheap.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
qFox wrote:
I see the emulator page 'recommends' fceu now, does that mean bisqwit allows and turns speedruns with this emu into vids as well? If I can use fceu with all the features famtasia is missing I'm certain I can be faster as well :p
Wow, you've been gone a while.
Kinda. Well over a year.
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
qFox wrote:
Btw, I accidentally discovered an easter egg today. In 1.2, at the warp star, if you move the star into the screen, then move a little back so the star is just outside of screen, and move right towards the star again, the star will vanish and you can move further to the right. The name "HAL" will be shown written in blocks. Useless but funny. (Ok, maybe old news, but I can't remember ever reading about this one).
Yeah, that's pretty well-known now.
Figures :)
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
qFox wrote:
And if I start over, which one's better? (U) PR0 or PR1? I still have a choice... :)
I don't know, but you also have a choice of whether to skip the intro faster with the reset button since FCEU lets you record it. I think reset tricks are cool, but other people might think they're just cheap.
Well, for comparison I would take the first complete white screen or something, so that trick doesn't bother me much. But I don't want to cause the multi-rom issues, as I found 12 roms (including 3 U roms)myself and can still not play Baxters ...wip. Hence I asked which rom was most commonly used
Baxter was using Kirby's Adventure (U) (PRG0) [!].nes, while Nitsuja was using Kirby's Adventure (U) (PRG1) [!].nes. Can you get the checksums to match?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
That's what's so strange... the checksum for Kirby's Adventure (U) (PRG0) [!].nes matches with the one listed in the wip (so FCEU say they match). Still, it desyncs at the miniboss fight in 1.2 (actually, kirby jumps into the first of three enemies that fly up before that miniboss).
Then maybe you're using the wrong emulator version. Did you download the one at http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1020&start=180? I used that just now to watch Baxter's last movie before the tornado test, and it worked the whole way through.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
No. Followed a link at the faq section on this site, ended up downloading http://www.filespace.org/Phil._Cote/fceu.zip
I'll give yours a shot :)
My version 0.98.13, yours is the same. Date does differ though (nov 19, dec 4)...
Strange but it works. Thanks :)
"Work In Progress". Yeah, I think that term gets overused here.
Especially when someone calls their finished test run a "Completed WIP" or "Finished WIP" or something similar - aren't those oxymorons?
qFox wrote:
My version 0.98.13, yours is the same. Date does differ though (nov 19, dec 4)...
It's only 0.98.13 because that's the 'official' version it's based on. Since the official project is dead, maybe I should've started making up new version numbers after that?
About this run - as far as I can tell, it's still up in the air as to which abilities are fastest to use. It's pretty much been decided that wheel is not the way to go because tornado is generally faster than it, but it could be that another ability would save more time than it loses in movement if it's able to kill bosses faster.
And BTW, at the very start of the game, walking to the first level door is faster than running to it. (Well, not by more than 1 frame, but still...)
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
Yeah, putting up new versions if the project is dead (seems like you're the one giving it cpr) isn't a bad idea. Maybe ask if you can take over the SF project page, if the original coders are done with it anyways... (then again, you probably already tried such).
It's really funny how I have to get used to the new environment. I find myself too much micromanaging (btw, if you're up for suggestions, enable the frameskip key to be held ;)) since I can actually manipulate every frame, 60fps. With famtasia it's possible by file (which is obviously not feasible). The to avi movie including a bunch of compressed types is great. Makes it very easy to compare video's, see how fast and where you go off. But enough about fceu.
I've tried but am not able to match or improve baxter's wip for 1.1. I'm off by about 120 frames (obviously, without taking the random skills at start. I never realized it would slow you down so much). I'm not giving up just yet. The bar has been raised considerably though :)
Is there anything else I might want to know. Like is the hammer in fact more effective then the sword, or perhaps umbrella? Tricks like getting rid of your skill while in a high fall will cause you not to bump uncontrollably but to land 'flat' as if it were a low jump... Or like the stuff I posted in this thread before.
Stuff like what weapons do what damage, you should find out, this is pretty essential (I know it takes time, and isn't fun to do)... luckily for you, I already did this ;)
This is a table on how many hit it took each weapon to kill the evil tree (which probably has a name) with each weapon:
Hammer: 6
Stone: 6
High Jump: 8
Needle: 8
Parasol: 10
Freeze: 10
Tornado: 10
Sword: 12
Fire: 12
Wheel: 14
Fireball: 14
Ice: 15
Cutter: 15
Laser: 20
This pretty much list how strong each weapon is.
(Hammer and Stone, strongest... Laser weakest)
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
Ehr... ok, then I don't know why it didn't work for me before (yeah, it does now). My bad.
Tnx for the weapon thing Baxter, while we're on that subject, I did some testing on traveling speed. I start in 1.1 counting the first frame kirby appears on screen until the frame where he's flat against the 'hill' with the first beam on it.
Dashing: 157 frames
Small jumps: 168 frames
Slides (2): 170 frames
Largest jumps (3): 176 frames
All in all it appears that dashing is fastest of all, however in your vid Baxter you jump a lot. Did I pick up right that running slows you down more then jumping if you have a boost for some reason?
Yeah, jumping seems to conserve Kirby's speed, so if something has boosted his speed past running speed, then he should do continuous jumps to keep it.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
To extend that weapons list:
Spark: 8
Beam: 19 (wow...)
Ball: couldnt do it :p
Crash: 40% dmg, required 4 apples to finish
Mike: 3 mikeys, same effect, however it should be noted that the first one is weaker than the others and the third one is stronger than the others.
Sleep: um, yeah
Light: dito
Backdrop: 6 apples (just for reference...)
Throw: 4! And the fourth was just a small healthbar
Throw turns enemies into those double stars, which are indeed the most powerfull, but whether it's actually usefull for us I don't know.
I think this completes your list, next to star rod, which you can't get except at the end. Also, UFO (possible with bug) is just a composition of the weapons above so I didn't bother testing.
Yeah, I forgot to mention spark an beam... Ball could be tested on other bosses... the other ones felt like not usefull to mention.
I thought throw would get 3, since I thought a double star did twice the damage a single star did. Either way, for stuff like Throw, you need to wait for enemy drops...
