Post subject: Kirby Mass Attack
Joined: 9/10/2011
Posts: 3
Location: New Jersey, USA
So yea, not officially out yet but I've been messing around with Atsumete! Kirby (the Japanese version) after playing it on my real DS. Things I noticed from playing on the emulator in frame advance, the jump/flick thing that you can do, you can do it in the air as long as you send Kirby into a wall first. Hopscotching Kirbys is virtually useless as the only way to advance the camera is with the cursor so I think running your cloud is the best bet. I'm still just testing things in the jap version right now and I'll start working on a run when I have the american version. Until then anything anyone can add?
Researching run: Kirby Mass Attack
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
sora3087 wrote:
Until then anything anyone can add?
The American version still hasn't come out yet (9 more days), so I don't understand most of what you're saying about the game. I'll get it when it comes out, and then I'll post here if I find anything interesting in real-time play. It's great you're running this game! I'm excited to see the run.
Joined: 9/10/2011
Posts: 3
Location: New Jersey, USA
Your icon is an interesting subject, its the exact first frame of animation that you can flick a Kirby off the ground when one lands. Things i found while playing in frame advance: -It is faster to make Kirby "skip" across levels with the flick if you only have one Kirby, i measured the amount of frames it took me to get a fixed short distance with flicking and with normal running and flicking was faster. -It takes 2 frames to flick and if you know what frame a Kirby is going to land you can put one of those frames 1 frame sooner. Other things: -I haven't seen randomness really anywhere in this game.(Other than mini-games) -I take back that infinite flick thing from my previous post, you can only flick one extra time after doing a wall jump, and you can't flick a second time midair after flicking into a ceiling. So already that means the first level has a lot of time wasting. -Intro movie cannot be skipped by resetting the system EVEN though it creates a save file. -The "get extra kirby" animation is super long (almost 100 frames), I'm trying to avoid getting any unnecessary fruit while I still need a minimum of 10 Kirbys(max) by the boss level of each world. -Don't know if i want to do a 100% run because I don't think i have the planning skills for that (lots of levels have to be revisited because of not enough Kirbys).
Researching run: Kirby Mass Attack
Joined: 6/26/2011
Posts: 167
...Would the plural be Kirbys or Kirbies? o.O Either way, I'm also quite looking forward to seeing what you can do with this game. I haven't played it but it looks very unique.
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats. Yay, favoritism.
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
According to Nintendo, it's Kirbys. In case you can't see their flash movie, they say "More Kirbys, More Power!" The run will probably be popular, considering the game will have just come out (hasn't come out here yet; 7 more days).
sora3087 wrote:
Your icon is an interesting subject, its the exact first frame of animation that you can flick a Kirby off the ground when one lands.
My icon is from Kirby Super Star, a classic (1996) Kirby game. Again, Mass Attack hasn't come out here yet.
Joined: 9/10/2011
Posts: 3
Location: New Jersey, USA
You should give the japanese game a chance, its not like there is much reading to understand the gameplay. There are achievements and unlockable mini-games in this game as far as 100% I'm pretty sure I wouldn't just have to beat the levels but get all the achievements too which I think includes certain things done in the mini games :( Also I'll have you know that I have a cart of Kirby Super Star in my SNES now from playing with my friend last week.
Researching run: Kirby Mass Attack
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
OK, just got this game and it is GREAT! Anyway, I can understand and appreciate all you've found so far with this game now, so keep going! I don't think 100% is worth it. There's all the minigames and backtracking for medals and 10 Kirby medals.
sora3087 wrote:
-I take back that infinite flick thing from my previous post, you can only flick one extra time after doing a wall jump, and you can't flick a second time midair after flicking into a ceiling. So already that means the first level has a lot of time wasting.
By "time wasting", do you mean riding the warp star? If that's the only way up there, it'll have to do.
Active player (462)
Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 297
Location: CT, USA
Took a little break and decided to screw around with this today. Here is what I learned in four hours of messing around. Double tap running seems like it's faster than anything else, even with a single Kirby. Double tap running can be achieved in six frames. Frame 1: Tap wait four frames Frame 6: Tap (and hold as necessary) A Kirby can be throw every five frames. Each individual Kirby has a 30 frame cooldown timer before being throw again, unless hitting the ground. The cooldown addresses for each Kirby are dynamic and change each map change. I didn't bother much with finding memory addresses. A neat trick is to knock a Kirby into the ground. He'll bounce up and can be knocked again during this bounce (due to hitting the ground). I'm sure this will be useful, but really situational. Entering a door or canon with one Kirby will suck the rest of the Kirbys into it. I don't think the "cloud" will be used except when it's absolutely necessary. It seems like it's the slowest method of moving a group of Kirbys around. I figured this might be a fun side project, but I can see otherwise. I would love to see someone work on this though since it'll make for an entertaining run. If anyone wants my .dsm, they're free to have it. It goes right into the first level and ends input the frame Kirby is controllable (or rather, the Star). Just leave a reply and I'll upload it. I think I'll run this if no else has after I'm finished with Sonic Colors. There will definitely be a lot of attention needed for route planning with fruit, but I don't think this game would be that hard.
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
VanillaCoke wrote:
If anyone wants my .dsm, they're free to have it. It goes right into the first level and ends input the frame Kirby is controllable (or rather, the Star). Just leave a reply and I'll upload it. I think I'll run this if no else has after I'm finished with Sonic Colors. There will definitely be a lot of attention needed for route planning with fruit, but I don't think this game would be that hard.
I don't think I'll work on this game, but I would love to see the .dsm.
Active player (462)
Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 297
Location: CT, USA
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1864544706/Kirby_Mass_Attack.dsm It actually ends five or six frames before the star is controllable, but no extra input is necessary.
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
Thanks! It looks good so far. I'll be anticipating your WIPs of this game after you finish Sonic Colors.
Editor, Expert player (2364)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Cute, as usual for Kirby. Looks good so far, but I hope the gameplay stays fresh.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Active player (462)
Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 297
Location: CT, USA
I liked it a lot, I hope you do the full game.
Editor, Expert player (2364)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
Well, maybe you could post it to the WIP thread so someone else might be inspired to work on it while VanillaCoke is working on Sonic Colors. Just a suggestion.
Active player (462)
Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 297
Location: CT, USA
MUGG wrote:
I'm not gonna do it.
Mind saying how long you worked on the first level? I'm just curious how long it took to do it, cause it looked really sharp and precise.
Editor, Expert player (2364)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
A few hours? There are some possible improvements: - 1st room: Flick Kirby across slopes rather than against them, to minimize the amount of times you have to flick him. - 2nd room: I didn't use the star to climb some of the floors here, because I wasn't aware the star has to be on the screen for some frames before Kirby can touch it. Probably it's quicker to use the star at every instance here. - Luck manipulation: Kirby's animations when appearing on the screen in the first room, or when going through doors or the final door differ in length, so you should manipulate the shortest one every time (you can manipulate it by touching the screen to make the star appear). You can also manipulate appearance of certain kinds of fruit like this, for example for the room after crashing into the bird. - When Kirby gets attached to an enemy, touch the enemy repeatedly to kill it quicker (though I'm not sure how that works or how much time each touch saves - the rainbow bubble still took a long time even with touching). I used this input sequence: touch,touch,no touch, no touch, repeat. - As you may have noticed when watching my video, Kirby can apparently be flicked again even though he didn't hit the ground for a long time. Sometimes he can be flicked again after he touches the star... I don't know how this works, I just tried it randomly. It needs some investigation. - Compare how I flick Kirby in the very first room, and in the room with the final door. Kirby seems to cover a longer distance if flicked slightly more diagonal. After I climbed the ledge, I started flicking the Kirbys much more diagonally, because it seemed faster, but in retrospect it looks to be much slower. I don't want to TAS this because it's hard to optimize and requires some planning with the amount of Kirbys. I did do TASes that required heavy planning in the past, but I'm just not interested for the time being.
Post subject: Re: Kirby Mass Attack
zwataketa
He/Him
Joined: 9/1/2012
Posts: 309
sora3087 wrote:
Things I noticed from playing on the emulator in frame advance, the jump/flick thing that you can do, you can do it in the air as long as you send Kirby into a wall first.
You actually dont need to hit a wall, but it might be faster anyway so that kirby's status can reset to where you can jump again instantly rather than having to wait. Also, its faster in the beginning where it teaches you how to carry kirby's to instead flick the one kirby you have twice; once on the ground, then again in the air. Also, get the rainbow medals the first time you get through levels (unless you need to go through the other path in split path levels first) seeing as how they're required to beat the game (not just with a good ending, but at all)
I quit TASing.
zwataketa
He/Him
Joined: 9/1/2012
Posts: 309
If you're still working on it, here's some boss tips. I'll add more as I remember the bosses: Whispy: try knocking on both trunks parts simultaneously to get whispy down quicker, or if there is only one left and whispy is at least on the touch screen, aim for whispy instead. Lady ivy: find out when she is going to hit the bar, carry you're kirbys over that half, and when shes dizzy, release. If carrying them over still knocks them dizzy, make sure you at least have 6 or so that aren't dizzy to move the bar down on her head to deal damage. Also, her attack pattern might be mainpulatable, but she always deals the headbutt in a certain pattern, either every third or fourth attack (forgot exact count, but somewhere around that) will be the headbutt. King dedede: knock both the bomb bubble that's about to explode and the bubble that doesn't explode as quickly into the air, then knock the bubble that didn't explode into the air one more time and it will explode. Its impossible to manipulate him to not use the super jump attack, because the bomb bubbles are the only means of attacking him, and you get to damage him anyways, so its actually better. Skullord (volcano-pig man): destroy all the meteors and get the cannons right. 'nuff said. Necrodeus: it is possible to destroy his hands the first time he attacks with each. Just be sure to hit them each time he punches the ground (including when he doesn't get them stuck). For the second phase, get all the damage possible on the two hands as possible before they clap, then escape and dodge the energy balls (you can't destroy them before they clap once). Do it again and they should be destroyed on the second go. Get all your kirbies to one of the hands as quickly as possible and tap like crazy (or, in this case, frame advance-tap-frame advance-no tap-frame advance-tap etc.), and you should be able to destroy the other hand too without it repeating the clap phase, making it so you can instantly go to the next phase (ive accomplished this in real time quite a few times actually). On the third phase, destroy the rocks he throws out not only to stop the lasers, but also to save time (his next action won't happen until the rocks are destroyed). Its impossible to catch him and deal damage when he fakes you out on the touch screen, so you have to wait for when he holds the eye in his mouth out in the open (kirby bosses have weird features sometimes |P). Deal as much damage as possiblebefore he fires his laser, then get off, because you can't finish him in one go. Btw, before this he has a bigger energy ball attack than last time. Im not so sure if it can be negated the first time he uses it via manipulation, but i think on the second time it can be negated. Anyways, now he will fire out skullions (stronger skullys). defeat them like normal skullys, except be careful because they are faster and if you get caught, they don't move slowly enough for you to rescue the kirby. He'll start faking you out again. If he uses the huge energy ball again, find a way to manipulate it away, because he'll most likely use two now. Damaging him more should finish him, then he will shake for a few frames preventing the kirbys from grabbing him, so stay away (it doesnt damage them, but it makes it take a bit longer to do the next step and look unprofessional). As soon as he stops shaking, flick a kirby onto him and all kirbys will follow because it will activate a touch minigame. Touch the kirbys but not the skulls (as if it isnt already obvious). And you won't be able to move while its loading the stage clear screen, but dont end the input there, because you'll need to scroll through the ending, and then theres a fishing minigame during the credits, and then the game album ... ... Since the credits are activated at that point, is it really necessary to play the fishing minigame? Will tas videos just take that part out? Sorry, i dont know how that works :P
I quit TASing.
Post subject: heres a speedrun
Experienced player (691)
Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2239
Location: Guatemala
Post subject: Any% run movie
Evan0512
He/Him
Joined: 10/18/2017
Posts: 171
Location: San Francisco
I am writing about the Kirby Mass Attack WIP (User movie #638653346931303393) that I recently completed. However, I was confused between the only RTA run and the TAS I am working on. I encountered more lag in this game and there was no improvement when I tried to change modes from DS to DSi. I don't know if there are regional differences (USA vs. Europe vs. Japan) that will impact the game's performance. Based on the movie that I made this month, the RTA timing of this run was 3:26:52.6. However, the in-game time is 3:22:25, which was faster than the fastest speedrun. I was still trying to double-check this run before I can submit it.
Planned runs: Marble Madness (Arcade, Genesis J, GG/SMS) Proposed: Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD: regular, camera freeze) Ecco: The Tides of Time (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD; normal mode) Mario Kart DS (all cups, all missions) In progress: Grand Poo World 3 (all exits hard mode)
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
Evan0512 wrote:
I was confused between the only RTA run and the TAS I am working on. I encountered more lag in this game
CasualPokePlayer's response to you in the other thread confirms what I was thinking, but lacked a reliable source to say for certain. BizHawk's melonDS is more accurate to a real DS than Wii U VC. So your run and its emulated lag should be legitimate as far as we know, and okay to submit.
Evan0512 wrote:
I don't know if there are regional differences (USA vs. Europe vs. Japan) that will impact the game's performance.
I'm not a judge, but even if the run were faster on a different version, the amount of work you already put into the run will be considered by judges, along with the difficulty of redoing a run of this length.