Anti-Idle: The Game is an Idle Game created by Tukkun and playable exclusively on Kongregate, first released in 2009. The game follows standard idle game rules but also incorporates several elements from other types of games into one game. This is a first ascension tool assisted speedrun, killing the Ascendant as fast as possible, and ascending.

Run commentary

To ascend, I must get to level 9000. So the main strategy behind this run is abusing MindSweeper. At TAS speed, this arcade game can give 1040 insta-progress per second (so the progress bar fills up 1040 times per second). Most of the work in this TAS that's not mindsweeper is either increasing progress bar output or increasing arcade rewards, the rewards you get when you quit an arcade minigame (which make up 18% of the total exp gain in the run.)
At the start I rush all the achievements I can get. Each achivements gives some boost to the progress bar, which is my main method of progression. I can get these while waiting for the tutorial which is scripted. I also enter two codes which give me 250 white coins, enough to buy modules, and an expill. I get two EXP modules, a YC one and FCG cash to feed the pet later on.
At level 4 I unlock auto booster. This can start to give me boost, the meter on the lower right. Boost increases resource gain as well as progress bar speed so it's extremely important. Each level, I can enter the Konami code on the achivement screen, which gives +10% boost. I use this extensively throughout the early game. Boost can also be upgraded with green coins, which I'll do all throughout the TAS.
After I get Garden, I plant a tree and harvest it later, all while doing some konami to get my boost up. Once I harvest it I have enough for BA.
BA is the main "feature" of Anti Idle. The main point in going here now is to finish the newbie tasks, the quests on the bottom. Once completed they give a huge 20% boost to the progress bar. I get as far as I can before I unlock the next feature, the Button. Unfortunately I didn't get rank 12 so I have to go back to finish it.
Button gives much greater exp and resource gain, so I switch to it, doing perfect clicks. Sometimes I switch to an excellent click because the game has an anti cheat which resets your combo after 16 perfects in a row. Each perfect gives 1 purple button, and I buy a yellow boost potion with 250 of them, bringing me up to 1200% boost.
With arcade unlocked, the main part of the run starts. Note I started on a very specific day that gives 200% arcade reward. I also started so that the next day would be a Friday, letting me feed the dragon faster.
First, I have to unlock mindsweeper. To do so, I play Math Master twice. The first time I finish it, I unlock daily rewards, then save and quit, and buy two Pixelated Mystery Boxes (PMBs). These give Battle Arena exp when opened, so I open two and get enough to finish the tutorial, giving me that 20% increase to the progress bar.
The second Math Master run is done to get rating higher as well as to get enough blue coins to buy the arcade pack, which unlocks MindSweeper. Rating is a multiplier on the rewards I get when quitting a game, so doing another quick run like this is worth it. During this second run I also use my EXPill as soon as I unlock it, and switch day when I end the run, activating an hyper day and giving 300% exp to all features (except progress bar).
During the first MindSweeper run, I unlock all the other basic features: pet, career, business, as well as the epic license. I quit early in other to activate these. Pet gives me up to 40% arcade exp, a welcome boost. Career gives supply crates when you level up past 100, which I'll open at the end. Business gives a massive yellow coin boost which will help feeding the dragon. At the end, I farm for white coins in order to buy a Pixel module. This will help me level up quickly in BA at the end.
The second MindSweeper run focuses on levelling up Epic Skills with yellow coins. I level up Double Progress, which will give me more insta-progress from the progress bar, the coin epic skill, giving me more income, and the module master letting me proc modules more easily for more pixels.
Once I quit, I feed the dragon, buy some more boost, and go into the final mindsweeper grind. I quit so that I get enough exp to get level 9000 straight away, then I redeem business and open the supply crates. I feed dragon 1000 times to get the sword needed to ascend, which is required to beat the Ascendant.
The other main puzzle starts here: how do I beat the Ascendant in the Battle Arena with an extremely underleveled character? First, I level him up as much as possible with my pixels. I opened supply crates earlier one, which give battle arena exp, so I get some battle arena ranks from that.
Then, I go dump my currency on mystery boxes. I buy more PMB, which give arena exp, to leevel up, and buy six Apocalypse crate. Each crate has a 1/334 chance to give me the armor I want, the Knightmare armor, and I have to get five of them. So a bunch of RNG manipulation is required. I also get a weapon finalizer for the sword.
Finally, I switch oranges bonuses on Knightmare to Attack, get some skills, turn on mana power, and Ascendant goes down quick and I finish this run in around 15 minutes.

eien86: Claiming for judging.

eien86: I fail to sync, so asking for additional information that can help sync

eien86: Replacing movie with a cropped one provided by the author

eien86: Welp, this was a hard one to judge. Let's analyze all factors:
  • Game choice. The game binary (v1861.swf) is an official release provided directly by Tukkun, its author. The fact that it is provided in a Google Drive is not ideal, since this link can become stale at any moment. Nevertheless, it's a perfectly acceptable distribution.
  • Category choice. Here the author goes for 'First Ascension', a special event that occurs when the player achieves level 9001 (obvious Dragon Ball Z reference). Given the game continues forever after this event (i.e., it is possible to have infinite ascensions), the chosen end point is perfectly acceptable and would qualify for a 'Standard' category.
  • Use of in-game codes. The author uses special input codes, one of which is a homage to the classic Konami code, which enhances level-up rewards. Although the community accepts this for RTA speedruns and the game author considers this an easter egg, it does contain many of the main ingredients of a cheat code. That is, (a) it is secret, (b) it is enabled via an unnatural sequence of inputs, and (c) provides an advantage compared to a casual player. The use of cheats is further betrayed by the clearly visible 'Cheater' moniker, a tongue-in-cheek accusation from the author themselves, which is displayed during the run. Seeing this, an average TASVideos viewer would be confused why we started accepting cheated runs for the standard category. For these reasons, we cannot consider their use part of a 'Standard' run, but instead, a 'Alternative' run where the use of in-game codes is clearly marked.
  • Optimization. The run is visibly optimized. That is, for an untrained eye (myself), it looks like things are going as fast as possible. However, Spikestuff has identified that the code inputs can be done in fewer frames than it is in the movie, but it isn't clear whether this can lead to a faster overall time.
  • Entertainment. Given this movie has an alternative goal, it is a matter of entertainment factor whether it can be categorized as such, or stored in Playground. The opinions are divided here, with split votes (majority YES). Some users manifested that their unfamiliarity with the game and the quickly shifting menus make it for a terrible experience. But I think I can understand the enjoyment of seeing a game where you are supposed to spend hundreds of hours being beaten so fast. One can see the collective knowledge of the community and the effort of the TASer behind this movie and I think that's valuable. The game's community members will surely know how to appreciate this movie.
  • Sync. Several staff (including myself) tried very hard to get this to sync without any success. Surprisingly, only the author (France) and user McBobX (Morocco) were able to sync. It wasn't until fsvgm777 had a stroke of genius and connected the dots: the desync happened because the aforementioned users had a different keyboard layout (AZERTY). After changing her own layout, fsvgm777 was able to make the movie sync.
  • Photosensitivity. A warning needs to be displayed do to the flashing produced by the quick changing menu screens.
Accepting to Alternative 'uses in-game codes'
fsvgm777: Processing.


Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
xy2_ wrote:
for konami (and gift codes), we don't consider it a cheat. both are allowed in speedruns. this is because it's intended to be done in the game, and has achievements related to it (see the secrets achievements section) which is needed for completion.
What exactly does "needed for completion" mean?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
in this game, there is no real completion point as it's an idle game. so that means more so doing everything in the game part of this needs getting 100% achievements, and the codes and konami are part of those achievements
eien86
He/Him
Judge, Skilled player (1873)
Joined: 3/21/2021
Posts: 262
Location: Switzerland
xy2_ wrote:
in this game, there is no real completion point as it's an idle game. so that means more so doing everything in the game part of this needs getting 100% achievements, and the codes and konami are part of those achievements
But this is a "fastest ascension", not a 100% achievements movie. Can you get ascension without the konami code?
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
yes, but it is faster to use it this is intended and used in speedruns often, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txog-U8j8Bc at 1:47 where the code is repeatedly used what i mean to say is that it's an intended mechanic in my view, not a cheat code. anyone can use it in their normal playthrough, and it is even encouraged to do so, even in a non speedrun setting. in casual play, impossible ascensions use the code at the start to take less time my argument was that if the code was an unintended mechanic, it would not be balanced (as it is currently: once per level restriction, minor boost), and would not have a reference to it directly in the game: we have the direct parallel in the game, where you can enable cheats, which is not intended to be legitimate and allows you to do anything without restriction speaking of speedruns, the game has a speedrun mode made by the author of the game. in the run i linked above, which uses that mode, konami works like in the normal game. it is not disabled. but there is something else that is disabled, the "enable cheats" button: https://i.imgur.com/eDn45uh.png
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Is "all achievements" the only way to define full completion for this game?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
there is no defined completition point, rather there is a bunch of stuff to do, but you don't get an end nor a credits screen for doing it. most completion points are defined by the community part of doing everything would be getting 100% achievements it's also more complicated, because recently the community discovered an incomplete new achievement system in the source code, called "omega achievements", and made it work as most of it was already kind of working, so a new completion point is getting all of those achievements here the completion i chose was getting the first ascension. i chose this objective for the tas as the community was interested to see just how fast we could do it from starting the game but this is a fake end screen as you can just continue. there are three different types of ascensions of varying difficulties which give you points that unlock powerups in the game, and "completing" ascensions means getting enough ascention points to unlock everything (which can take around 9000 ascensions and takes on the order of months of full time play)
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
If "all achievements" requires several months of non-stop play, that doesn't sound like a good full completion definition.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
eien86
He/Him
Judge, Skilled player (1873)
Joined: 3/21/2021
Posts: 262
Location: Switzerland
xy2_ wrote:
there is no defined completition point, rather there is a bunch of stuff to do, but you don't get an end nor a credits screen for doing it. most completion points are defined by the community part of doing everything would be getting 100% achievements it's also more complicated, because recently the community discovered an incomplete new achievement system in the source code, called "omega achievements", and made it work as most of it was already kind of working, so a new completion point is getting all of those achievements here the completion i chose was getting the first ascension. i chose this objective for the tas as the community was interested to see just how fast we could do it from starting the game but this is a fake end screen as you can just continue. there are three different types of ascensions of varying difficulties which give you points that unlock powerups in the game, and "completing" ascensions means getting enough ascention points to unlock everything (which can take around 9000 ascensions and takes on the order of months of full time play)
But with regards to this particular movie. You've defined "First ascension" as your target goal, which is acceptable under the "Alternative" category. However, it seems the use of the Konami code is not really unconditionally necessary to achieve that goal, is it?
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
feos wrote:
If "all achievements" requires several months of non-stop play, that doesn't sound like a good full completion definition.
Sorry, I didn't explain this very well: the several months of play is for doing all ascensions for all achievements, most are fast to do and can be done within 24 hours, the only problematic ones are the timewall achievements which require playing for 28 days
Time Badly Spent Play for 2,419,200 seconds (28 days)!
But this only applies in a normal savefile, in a speedrun savefile all timewall achievements are earned automatically
eien86 wrote:
But with regards to this particular movie. You've defined "First ascension" as your target goal, which is acceptable under the "Alternative" category. However, it seems the use of the Konami code is not really unconditionally necessary to achieve that goal, is it?
no it is not necessary, but it is in the game and, as i argue it is not a cheat, so i'm using it to go faster
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Is there any speedrun page for all this? I found nothing on SRC. What is a speedrun savefile?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
feos wrote:
Is there any speedrun page for all this? I found nothing on SRC.
there are a few speedruns on youtube, we track them on the discord since it's easier, you can find them on youtube https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=anti+idle+speedrun the main category at the moment is c rank c, where we define the end as completing a quest that require doing a number of other quests up to the c rank level, the speedrun i linked above (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txog-U8j8Bc) is an example of this
feos wrote:
What is a speedrun savefile?
it's a mode in the game intended for speedrunners:https://i.imgur.com/okwg0L3.png, it makes the game have a bit less annoyances: by removing the tutorial, and unlocks time gated achievements and tutorial achivement right away, as well as adds a timer in the top right of the screen. konami is allowed i don't use it in the TAS as it's not available as soon as you start (requires reaching level 1000 in a normal savefile), so it would require sram and i also wanted to see what could be done while the tutorial was active
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Does the 100% speedrun even exist? Also why doesn't this game have a speedrun.com entry?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
xy2_ wrote:
for konami (and gift codes), we don't consider it a cheat. both are allowed in speedruns. this is because it's intended to be done in the game, and has achievements related to it (see the secrets achievements section) which is needed for completion. both are intentionally balanced: - konami can be done only once per level, and gives a minor 10% boost. it can't be spammed to cheat your way out and get more levels - the two gift codes can only be used once and give a minor amount of resources why do i say this isn't a cheat? beacuse we have actual cheat mechanics in the game: https://i.imgur.com/8O3LlcR.png -> requires clicking an enable cheats button, irreversible this leads you to a cheat menu https://i.imgur.com/NlS0yjn.png, and the savefile permanently has a CHEAT SAVEFILE banner plastered across in my opinion a run using these kinds of cheats would not be real
Does the game tell you about those codes that this movie uses, in any official and clear way?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
feos wrote:
Does the 100% speedrun even exist?
no one has made one as far as i know
feos wrote:
Also why doesn't this game have a speedrun.com entry?
the community is small, so we just use discord, pretty much only two people speedrun the game 😭 EDIT: they didn't get accepted on speedrun.com, and i guess didn't try again since https://i.imgur.com/3C3wc9u.png
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
feos wrote:
xy2_ wrote:
for konami (and gift codes), we don't consider it a cheat. both are allowed in speedruns. this is because it's intended to be done in the game, and has achievements related to it (see the secrets achievements section) which is needed for completion. both are intentionally balanced: - konami can be done only once per level, and gives a minor 10% boost. it can't be spammed to cheat your way out and get more levels - the two gift codes can only be used once and give a minor amount of resources why do i say this isn't a cheat? beacuse we have actual cheat mechanics in the game: https://i.imgur.com/8O3LlcR.png -> requires clicking an enable cheats button, irreversible this leads you to a cheat menu https://i.imgur.com/NlS0yjn.png, and the savefile permanently has a CHEAT SAVEFILE banner plastered across in my opinion a run using these kinds of cheats would not be real
Does the game tell you about those codes that this movie uses, in any official and clear way?
the first code i use, hyper2, is directly said in the changelog on the official game page: https://i.imgur.com/KgZnYhz.png the second code, tJv89gX6, has a direct reference in the game, as a hidden textbox which you can copy paste from https://i.imgur.com/UwKii4E.png konami code is refered in the official changelog: https://web.archive.org/web/20160617205858mp_/http://www.kongregate.com/forums/60/topics/212349?page=2, though it doesnt tell you how to do it https://i.imgur.com/IZpWplF.png Edit by feos: Fixed archive link.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
And cheats that you guys ban are not mentioned in those changelogs or docs?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
there is only one actual cheat, it's directly in the game when you go to options: the enable cheats button https://i.imgur.com/eDn45uh.png this is not something that we ban, more so that we cant use it at all (in speedrun mode), and even if we could it just allows you to change everything so it would be pointless in a speedrun (it also displays a big CHEAT SAVEFILE warning on the file so its obvious when someone used it)
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
xy2_ wrote:
konami code is refered in the official changelog: https://web.archive.org/web/20160617205858mp_/http://www.kongregate.com/forums/60/topics/212349?page=2, though it doesnt tell you how to do it https://i.imgur.com/IZpWplF.png
How hard is it to figure out how to do it?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
feos wrote:
xy2_ wrote:
konami code is refered in the official changelog: https://web.archive.org/web/20160617205858mp_/http://www.kongregate.com/forums/60/topics/212349?page=2, though it doesnt tell you how to do it https://i.imgur.com/IZpWplF.png
How hard is it to figure out how to do it?
When you are in achievement screen there is a bar that lights up as soon as you do the first input of the konami, it goes up for each correct input and resets if you fail: https://i.imgur.com/QH08UYQ.png so just pressing the arrows keys (which you do when navigating the achivements menu) can make you input the first part by accident, and you get the visual feedback instantly so you could figure it out from there it has direct discoverability in game
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
While we have this in Wiki: JudgeGuidelines
Above all else, treat our community with care. Be kind and courteous to them, always respect their work, encourage them to continue, and use your knowledge and skill to help them improve.
  • Always adapt to the needs of the community. Consider every angle of a problem, and work together with the rest of staff to provide the best solution.
The site should change to fit the community. The community should never change to fit the site.
and we're even discussing how we can switch to a community-controlled system with per-game rules, the current system entirely depends on universal rules for all movies. Obviously those rules can evolve to match community needs better. But in this particular case I'm having serious problems boiling down the cheat borderline used for this game to something universal that we could switch to. Very few games have special achievements for cheats that are "actually intended" even thought the game does call them cheats and doesn't explain in official docs how to use them, and then "real unintended cheats" with a different system that needs to be enabled. We use the borderline of "an in-game code is allowed in Standard if it unlocks gameplay features" and it covers overwhelming majority of cases very well, it also got approved by the site's community and staff. Do you have any suggestions on how exactly the rules could be reworded to include your case, while also not turning into "anything goes"? How can we universally distinguish in all games cheats that are allowed in this game, from those that are not?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
feos wrote:
Do you have any suggestions on how exactly the rules could be reworded to include your case, while also not turning into "anything goes"? How can we universally distinguish in all games cheats that are allowed in this game, from those that are not?
I think the current system may be unappropriate in this case. I think it has to be more on a case by case basis. As i understand this came up on this game specifically so maybe i could suggest adding a ruling to go more case by case when there is detail like this, and leave it to the judge to decide I can give more details on this case and why I think it needs different handling: the konami code used is a satirical thing making fun of actual cheat codes, the resources it gives are intentionally minor, like it doesnt save more than a second. i still do it because there is nothing else to do and it is technically faster. as for the other codes: one is from the game directly and another is prominent in the sidebar, both can be used only once and again, give minor resources that only save minimal time. (If needed i can ask the creator of the game for his opinion on whether konami & gift codes are a cheat, since he is still active) EDIT: removed repeated part since its not relevant
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
When deciding case-by-case, there still needs to be some kind of guideline, so people have understanding on how to make a decision, also important for users so they know what is allowed. Case-by-case can't be "just use the rules of the RTA community, even if they are not public", because what if there are several communities with different rules? And yeah I still don't understand how a working guideline for such cases would look.
If needed i can ask the creator of the game for his opinion on whether konami & gift codes are a cheat, since he is still active
Sounds good!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
I asked Tukkun, the creator, whether he thinks he consider gift codes / konami codes a cheat, and if are they legitimate to use in speedruns or TASes of the game:
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Please ask what makes them fundamentally different from explicit cheats.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Standard Class & "Cheats"
RetroEdit
Any
Editor, Reviewer, Player (169)
Joined: 8/8/2019
Posts: 152
I had a few thoughts from becoming aware of the cheats issue and reading the whole discussion topic. First, I wanted to put cheats aside for a second and address the run's endpoint and general acceptability in Standard Class. There were a few posts earlier in the thread where there seemed to be doubt whether this run counted as a completion at all. To me, given the game's genre of idle game, first ascension seems like a perfectly valid endpoint for fastest completion. And the game explicitly gives a screen titled "Game Complete" at the end. Of course, you can play indefinitely by ascending with boosts so each following loop will be faster, but to me it's analogous to the movie rule that says "If there's no clear ending, end after completing the first full game loop." I'm not sure there could really be another practically achievable Standard Class goal for idle games like this. As for cheats... I'm of two minds even while typing out this post. I do understand TASVideos has certain standards of validity it tries to uphold. There's a long-standing precedent against using cheats in Standard class runs, and as I understand it, this game explicitly labels you a Cheater as a result of using the Konami Code. At first, I didn't find the secrets achievement argument compelling because sometimes secret achievements in idle games are intentionally unfair and not part of the intended progression (e.g., the Shadow Achievements in Cookie Clicker). But comparing the secret achievements to other achivements, they don't seem much different in terms of the role they play in progression. I do think there's a fair argument that these codes are more like secrets than game-breaking cheat codes (especially in light of the separate cheat menu that gives full control over the game). To me personally the primary rationale for the "no in-game codes" rule is to prevent modifications that break the game in ways that are non-comparable to a run without using codes. I don't understand why the format of these particular secrets as codes makes any difference versus other kinds of secrets present in games that can be far more difficult to find and give far more extensive benefits to the player.