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Posted: 2/7/2008 2:16 PM
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Sami
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
I watched your TAS and there is lot of mistakes and clumsyness. I assumed this is your first game in TASing? You need just a littlebit more practice :) You use better rom than me. In my rom there is graphical errors but not that much. Here is my TAS if you want to watch it. I never submitted that :P http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1858149339/Simpsons%20-%20Bart%20Vs%20the%20World%2C%20The%20%28U%29.fcm You need a Simpsons - Bart Vs the World, The (U) to watch it.
Current Projects: ???
Posted: 2/7/2008 2:23 PM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
Banned User
Joined: 12/5/2007
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Location: Gone
I don't know if this site takes movies out of any roms that were glitched out, hacked, or damaged, but it's worth a shot. =)
Posted: 2/7/2008 2:31 PM
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Sami
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
I wont submitted that :D I made that just for fun :P
Current Projects: ???
Posted: 2/7/2008 2:53 PM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
Banned User
Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone
I see ya did quite well, but I think you abused the jump command quite a lot. Plus I checked out how many Krusty heads you should have avoided. Comparing between the Krusty heads collected in the movies: 
          		  Mine
China		  6 		0
North Pole   0	    0
Egypt		  4 		2
I did not include Hollywood because that was the last stage of the game and I won't count Krusty heads on that. But the more you collect, the longer that the movie could be. If for any reason we can maybe aim for 8 minutes or below using a clean rom, that will be a challenge for the both of us. But I just don't see how Phil and Baxter live far from each other and still beat Legend of Zelda in record time, lol...
Posted: 2/7/2008 3:15 PM
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Sami
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
You can try it =) Banjo-Kazooie takes my all TASing time at the moment.
Current Projects: ???
Posted: 11/26/2008 6:40 AM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
Banned User
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Location: Gone
9:12.08 http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/355131185/simpsons_WIP_11.26.08.fcm Now this may not look perfect, but it is 5 seconds faster. I have no idea what the improvement was, except a quicker defeat over the final boss.
Posted: 12/1/2008 9:52 AM
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Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Active player (409)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 634
Location: Seattle, WA
Jump more. You move faster that way. That's a large part of how Sami's WIP is still over a minute faster than yours. If you're making a WIP, compare every single stage to make darned sure that you are faster than the previous record. Not your record, Sami's. If you can't tie or beat his time at any tiny little bit of the run, completely redo it. You're still using an incorrect rom, too, google GoodNES and use it to rename your rom and tell us what it is. I used all three I have and I still couldn't get the rom to sync. Also, it says you used FCEU 0.98.13 to make the movie? Upgrade to 0.98.28 or FCEUX. That said, Sami's run actually is pretty good, but might be improvable. Perfect your techniques, and strive to be the best or nothing! You can do it, rah rah rah
Posted: 12/1/2008 1:57 PM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
Banned User
Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone
A couple of things to point out.
  • The rom I had was Simpsons,_The_-_Bart_Vs._the_World_(U)_[!].nes
  • The rom Sami used was one with a bad dump or did not have a [!] in the filename.
sami wrote:
In my rom there is graphical errors but not that much. You need a Simpsons - Bart Vs the World, The (U) to watch it.
I once watched his input with the other rom. One big thing I noticed was the ammo (red balls) that was infinite and never counted down to zero when Bart used them. The other was bad graphics in a few places, Hollywood>Soundstage 2 is an example. However, it looks pretty simple to focus on the actions and input done frame-by-frame even on a bad rom. And for that, I seek to post fastest time in a way the judges can accept. I can't beat the record because of limitation, but I seek to rip my own.
Posted: 12/1/2008 3:57 PM
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mz
Emulator Coder, Player (79)
Joined: 10/26/2007
Posts: 693
I can confirm symbolic X is using the correct rom.
symbolic X wrote:
I seek to post fastest time in a way the judges can accept. I can't beat the record because of limitation, but I seek to rip my own.
If you can't beat the record, judges will never accept it, unless you find a way to make it more entertaining, which is not happening with this game (this game: slow = really boring). And what kind of limitation are you talking about? I've tried TASing this game before* and Sami's record is easily improvable. If I recall correctly, you can shave some seconds even before starting the first ship stage. You're currently doing it all wrong, symbolic X. For example, you *have* to watch some memory addresses like speed and position. You'll find that you can't even waste a single frame on the floor, because your speed will get cut at half. And you really need to compare your position with the previous record to make sure you're not making some big mistakes somewhere. *I lost my WIP movie when my disc died some time ago. I'll probably work again on this game as soon as I finish other projects I'm currently working on, if there's still no movie published of it.
You're just fucking stupid, everyone hates you, sorry to tell you the truth. no one likes you, you're someone pretentious and TASes only to be on speed game, but don't have any hope, you won't get there.
Posted: 12/1/2008 8:45 PM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
Banned User
Joined: 12/5/2007
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mz wrote:
And what kind of limitation are you talking about?
I have to play with the number of ammo that Bart gets (10 at a time) which I thought would be limited. If he doesn't have the ammo and precise movement, he can't defeat his "Burns" (bosses) at faster times. The movement, positioning, and speed - that I understand.
Posted: 7/5/2023 1:21 AM
(Edited: 7/5/2023 1:41 AM)
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Randomno
Editor, Active player (459)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 240
Flash TASer of 2023 N64/DS TASer of 2021
Interested in TASing this but haven't looked into it yet. The Simpsons NES games are long-overdue submissions. There's a couple of YouTube videos. Link to video Seems to come in at just under 8 minutes with TAS timing. Done on QuickNes core. Commentary is hard to hear. Link to video Without commentary. There's a lot of information on speedrun.com here. They mention trying to sync Sami's run from this thread, which sounds like a pain since it was done on an old emulator and a bad ROM. There's also wall clipping, but no use for it yet known.
Posted: 7/5/2023 5:34 AM
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ktwo
Active player (252)
Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 116
Personally, I have a soft spot for the three Bart games. I've also thought it's a pity that two of them don't have (published) TASes. I can't contribute anything at this stage, but if you decide to start working on this (or Bartman) I can promise that I will follow the progress with interest.
Posted: 7/10/2023 8:08 PM
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Randomno
Editor, Active player (459)
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Flash TASer of 2023 N64/DS TASer of 2021
Sami's TAS syncs on FCEUX with the correct (bad) ROM. Don't know if that's what causes the graphical glitches on Fu Manchu Burns. Link to video There's some things to compare between this and the other TAS, particularly in North Pole, assuming the correct ROM plays the same.
Posted: 7/24/2023 12:42 AM
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Randomno
Editor, Active player (459)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 240
Flash TASer of 2023 N64/DS TASer of 2021
Finally made a start on this. Choas and Sami's TASes have several differences so there's quite a lot of time to be saved. I've only done the very first section but already found that it's faster to grab the cape from the bottom of the ship rather than climbing up. Link to video I would like to find a way to skip the snake bit in Egypt, and figure out how wall clips work. Not sure how to approach either.
Posted: 7/24/2023 10:18 AM
(Edited: 7/24/2023 10:33 AM)
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Randomno
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Flash TASer of 2023 N64/DS TASer of 2021
Finished China 301 frames ahead of Choas and 608 ahead of Sami. A lot of the timesave is just from the boss fight. I only saved about 25 frames in skateboarding, probably mostly from lag. Link to video
Posted: 7/25/2023 10:17 AM
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ktwo
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Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 116
Nice to see progress here! Is there any claim of someone skipping the snake or a theory of how one might do it? If there isn't, difficult to know what to test or look for. As for the wall clip, a good start would be to try and reproduce it in a movie. Then I would check the positions and speed values and see if there is any pattern that works when trying to do it again from a different starting position. Is there literally a hole somewhere in the wall? Or is Bart clipping through a solid barrier? To expand a bit on what the mini-guide/forum thread said about movement and position (I only quickly checked the jonk level): $54 - Bart's x-position on screen $57/$56 - Big/Small x-position of the screen (level coordinates) $57C/$57B - Big/Small x-position of Bart (level coordinates, =$54+$56) $574/$573 - Small/Sub x-speed $575 - {=$575+$573 if the speed is non-0; 0 if the speed is 0}, so sort of Bart's x sub-pixel So there is a sub-pixel calculation in the game, but with this twist of resetting when Bart is at a standstill. Looking at the above, I can't immediately come to think any abuse when it comes to regular movement. But if there is any jump in the game where an additional pixel would make a difference, then the sub-pixels could be worth looking at. It would also be interesting to see how the sub-pixels line up when Bart enters the wall.
Posted: 7/25/2023 11:09 AM
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Randomno
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Posts: 240
Flash TASer of 2023 N64/DS TASer of 2021
ktwo wrote:
Is there any claim of someone skipping the snake or a theory of how one might do it?
Nope, other than wall clipping.
As for the wall clip, a good start would be to try and reproduce it in a movie. Then I would check the positions and speed values and see if there is any pattern that works when trying to do it again from a different starting position. Is there literally a hole somewhere in the wall? Or is Bart clipping through a solid barrier?
I should probably do this sooner rather than later in case there does turn out to be a method for wall clips that I can use earlier in the run.
But if there is any jump in the game where an additional pixel would make a difference, then the sub-pixels could be worth looking at. It would also be interesting to see how the sub-pixels line up when Bart enters the wall.
Right as I need this in the Cave. Thanks for the addresses, I'll have to take a look.
Posted: 7/25/2023 3:39 PM
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Randomno
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Flash TASer of 2023 N64/DS TASer of 2021
Didn't take long to get the clip, but I'm not sure how much help it is. It seems your x speed goes up and down as you grind against a wall, so you just need to have enough x speed when you reach that point in the wall. I let go of right as early as possible. You can be holding right and it will still work as long as x speed is enough. It would probably be most helpful to be able to see the exact hitboxes of everything in the game. Also, there still isn't any known use once you get inside the wall. User movie #638258960697981823 Link to video
Posted: 7/25/2023 6:51 PM
(Edited: 7/25/2023 9:44 PM)
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ktwo
Active player (252)
Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 116
Thanks for the movie. I don't have any experience in hitbox analysis (other than trial-and-error), so I'm not the best to answer what's going on. But I did play around a bit just to see if anything interesting would happen. I couldn't get into the room with the two coffins either. However, looking at the positions and speeds, it's clear that it was a specific combination that was the key to clipping. I then tried that combination in other places on the wall and around. I managed to get into the left wall, at the same y-position by mirroring the inputs. So maybe there is a seam at 0xF0? I managed to get out a bit on the left side, but ended up walking in air, so it didn't work out either. To me, this looks like it has the potential to produce shortcuts and should therefore be tested in other places as well. Maybe even other levels. I should say that I don't know this game well enough, so I don't know if clipping makes sense in other levels though. Just to summarize from a pure testing perspective, you hug the wall, let the x-speed drop to 0, then give four consecutive inputs in the direction of the wall. The clipping then occurs when $575 loops and is converted into a full x-pixel. The y-position and y-speed also matter, but I haven't tried to look at the game mechanics. Given how similar the three Bart games control, might be worth checking forums and wips to see if anyone has reported/used wall clips in any of the other games? Or just any kind of abuse of the game mechanics in the other games would be worth checking out.
Posted: 7/26/2023 4:35 AM
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Randomno
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Flash TASer of 2023 N64/DS TASer of 2021
I tried clipping into the left side while hugging the wall but couldn't get it. After a few real-time attempts it worked. I came at it with a lot more speed than from hugging the wall. User movie #638259408670148665 Link to video When you mention 0xF0 is this the 1-byte value of 057D?
ktwo wrote:
Given how similar the three Bart games control, might be worth checking forums and wips to see if anyone has reported/used wall clips in any of the other games? Or just any kind of abuse of the game mechanics in the other games would be worth checking out.
I've looked at the other games. There's a pause glitch in Bartman that doesn't seem to work here unfortunately (mentioned in the latest post of its thread). I saw this on the tcrf page:
tcrf wrote:
The second stage levels ("Cave" and "Ice") have a small leftover from the development stage Level Editor. Using the D-Pad on controller 2, you can change the position of one of the level's static sprite objects; specifically, the object with index 1 in the static objects array. In the "Cave" level, this would be the stalactite on the ceiling near the exit of the level. In the "Ice" level, this would be one of the floating ice platforms.
The cave one doesn't seem helpful. The ice one could be, but I'm not sure how. Once Bart touches it it snaps back to its original position.
Posted: 7/26/2023 8:16 AM
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ktwo
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Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 116
My description of the wall clip to the left wasn't the best. I've uploaded a movie of it: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638259530905910086 Yes, by "0xF0" I was referring to the value of $57D (small y-position). It's the same for both the left and right side when clipping. I tried the same y-position in a few other places. I was able to clip into another wall at the same value of $57D, but with a different value of $57E (big y-value). I also tried in a few random spots in other levels, but couldn't get it to work. From a quick look, the level layouts are for the most part not set up for shortcuts from wall clipping. One possible candidate would have been when entering the pyramid, but I couldn't enter the wall at that y-position. I guess one would have to try all 256 possible y-values to be sure though...
Posted: 7/26/2023 11:08 AM
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Randomno
Editor, Active player (459)
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Flash TASer of 2023 N64/DS TASer of 2021
My first thoughts would be the cave, if it's possible to jump higher inside the wall, and the snake in Egypt.
Posted: 7/26/2023 7:39 PM
(Edited: 7/26/2023 7:40 PM)
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Randomno
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Flash TASer of 2023 N64/DS TASer of 2021
Could you make a .wch of the addresses? I'm trying to freeze/poke Bart's position to test collision inside the walls, but changing just one value seems to break collision in the level (for example, changing 2 bytes at 0x0056).
Posted: 7/29/2023 4:06 PM
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ktwo
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Sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking me to do. I know what a .wch is, but it's unclear to me why you would need me to make one for you instead of just making one yourself and fill it with the addresses you want? Or are you asking for help to find more RAM-addresses?
Posted: 7/29/2023 4:16 PM
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Randomno
Editor, Active player (459)
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Flash TASer of 2023 N64/DS TASer of 2021
I didn't fully understand your list of addresses so thought it would be easiest to make a watch list. Otherwise it would be great if you could explain ones like this a bit more:
$57C/$57B - Big/Small x-position of Bart (level coordinates, =$54+$56) $575 - {=$575+$573 if the speed is non-0; 0 if the speed is 0}, so sort of Bart's x sub-pixel
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