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TLH wrote:
Thanks for answering! I have uploaded the main movie here. The two playthroughs are not in the movie, but I have redone them here starting from an empty save to roughly show what it looks like.
I should have time on this within a week.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
It's come to my attention that the currently published TAS of Wii Party cannot be reproduced on the latest version of Dolphin. The reasons for this are as follows:
- The initial value of the timebase register is set depending on the initial date and time (at least, in Dolphin). Specifically, it's incremented by 182,250,000 for every second.
- This renders many timebase values completely impossible to reach, as the lower 4 bits will remain the same regardless of what date and time the user selects.
- Wii Party happens to seed its initial RNG value from the lower 32 bits of the timebase register.
- The slightest of changes to emulated disc read speeds in Dolphin, it seems, can change what lower 4 bits the timebase has when Wii Party seeds RNG for the first time.
In short, none of the RNG seeds accessible in Dolphin 5.0-12247 can be legitimately obtained in 5.0-18448, and vice versa. You can hack the RNG value to get a proper comparison across versions, of course, but this raises the potential for an issue where a TAS on an older version of Dolphin becomes completely unbeatable on newer versions, simply because the accessible RNG seeds are different.
Is this an issue of concern, and if so, is there any conceivable way one could address this problem?
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I don't think there's anything to solve here. We don't expect emulation to be perfect when we accept something, we just assume it to be decently true to the real world, barring non-determinism. If some movie was made on a less accurate version, we consider whatever state of emulation was there good enough, as long as the movie uses it decently optimally. If emulation changes later on, and the RNG aligns differently, it's unfair to consider a new movie better or worse if the RNG dependent part is the only thing that's different - it's just a resync.
If you find a gameplay improvement, it's better to implement it in the same old version to make it obvious the difference is not just in emulation, but in optimality too. Otherwise we face cases like #7183: Jigwally & CasualPokePlayer's GB Boxxle in 4:58:58.88.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Okay. So to clarify, if a movie can only be further optimised via RNG manipulation, does this mean improvements can only be submitted on the same emulator version as the existing publication?
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InputEvelution wrote:
Okay. So to clarify, if a movie can only be further optimised via RNG manipulation, does this mean improvements can only be submitted on the same emulator version as the existing publication?
Obsoletion
Any time saved or lost from version differences and/or emulation accuracy is considered unavoidable, and is discounted.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 8/7/2021
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I've been considering TAS-ing a Genesis game called Gravity Pig however, the game softlocks on certain emulators (BizHawk included) when entering the final boss fight. It works on regular hardware and some emulators but I'm unsure whether a run that cannot technically beat the full game can be accepted or if it is acceptable it'd end on the final level instead.
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MarioAtWork wrote:
I've been considering TAS-ing a Genesis game called Gravity Pig however, the game crashes on certain emulators (BizHawk included) when entering the final boss fight. It works on regular hardware and some emulators but I'm unsure whether a run that cannot technically beat the full game can be accepted or if it is acceptable it'd end on the final level instead.
The movie must be complete
Your submission must beat the game, or reach the most suitable endpoint the game allows. Single-level or otherwise incomplete movies are not allowed.
You'll need to wait for emulation to improve.
Does it also fail in newest Genesis+GX?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Were you using RetroArch when you attempting the game with the latest Genesis Plus GX? RetroArch is the quickest way to get the latest version of Genesis Plus GX.
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despoa wrote:
Were you using RetroArch when you attempting the game with the latest Genesis Plus GX? RetroArch is the quickest way to get the latest version of Genesis Plus GX.
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TLH wrote:
Thanks for answering! I have uploaded the main movie here. The two playthroughs are not in the movie, but I have redone them here starting from an empty save to roughly show what it looks like.
I turned your savestate anchored movie into a saveRAM anchored movie, and the very start of the game now desyncs. If I can't resync it, we may discuss granting an exception.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I turned your savestate anchored movie into a saveRAM anchored movie, and the very start of the game now desyncs. If I can't resync it, we may discuss granting an exception.
I see... I guess since it is an arcade-style game it also saves the scores in a leaderboard, so it is very hard to reproduce the exact same saveRAM. And that likely affects the RNG and the entire game since the spawning and behavior of all enemies is affected by RNG. This probably means that in this case the goal of complete reproducibility is hard to reach at this point...
Maybe for the future it would be nice to have a small note on the website or the rules on how to make TAS runs based on New Game Plus or unlocked features.
Thank you for taking the time to look at it!
No Random Encounters
At the main menu, go to the configuration menu, then press Select 5 times, Up, Down, Left, Right, Start. You will no longer have random encounters during gameplay.
Is this allowed in a run? Or does this count as a password?
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For a standard "in-game codes" branch:
MovieRules wrote:
In-game codes that add gameplay are allowed for a separate branch, as long as such codes are used optimally. Codes that modify or disable in-game mechanics are not allowed, unless they unlock an in-game item or a skill that does that.
But for Alternative, there's no such limitation if you aim for a non-standard goal and you make it entertaining.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
hello, I want to make a 100% category for brain lord, the problem is that this game doesn't have any run on that category and there is not really a community for it, so my question is, should I just make my own rules and submit the TAS once finished or should I discuss first what the rules should be and then do the TAS? I don't really wanna make a tas just to have it declined because there were no actual rules other than the ones I came up with
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ZoroarkGX wrote:
hello, I want to make a 100% category for brain lord, the problem is that this game doesn't have any run on that category and there is not really a community for it, so my question is, should I just make my own rules and submit the TAS once finished or should I discuss first what the rules should be and then do the TAS? I don't really wanna make a tas just to have it declined because there were no actual rules other than the ones I came up with
Having a discussion sounds like a good idea. Here's what we want from a full completion category (or any other standard category for that matter): Wiki: MovieRules#Standard
If the movie is entertaining and doesn't fit into any standard category, it can still be published to the Alternative class if the goal is solid.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Having a discussion sounds like a good idea. Here's what we want from a full completion category (or any other standard category for that matter): Wiki: MovieRules#Standard
well, brain lord is an action rpg, inventory is limited to 48 slots so I can't keep a lot of stuff for 100%, my goal was to get all armor, all weapons, all fairies and all unique items, that's a total of 43 items, I'd like to include at least one of the valuable items that has no use other than selling, those are 4 different ones, leaving only 1 free space, there are also shields but those are 6 and excedes the space limit, and those are also consumables so I exclude them
for the rules I came up with I have to open all locked doors (to be oppened with a key) and open all chests, chests gives up items that some can be just discarded but other have to be used like the heart and source of powe which gives a permanent upgrade, I want to include having max gold wich might be a problem if this category eventually becomes runned RTA, there are more minor rules but I guess the last important rule is to defeat all bosses and the run ends when defeating the final one
one last thing, there is a key item for the story that you're supposed to trade and eventually get rid of, but using a glitch it can actually be kept, that would make up for the empty space in the inventory, but I'd like to make it optional since it's supposed to be an item you don't keep, it can also make future runs optimizable since keeping it requires a glitch to skip some stuff and almost making it a requirement to start from the 3rd dungeon, latter on maybe someone would like to start from the first and secon dungeons
so what do you think?
I feel like just opening all chests and getting all the optional fairies and skills in Brain Lord is good enough for full completion. All the other parts seem extraneous but that's up to you if you want to include them with all the extra routing and RNG manipulation that entails.
I feel like just opening all chests and getting all the optional fairies and skills in Brain Lord is good enough for full completion. All the other parts seem extraneous but that's up to you if you want to include them with all the extra routing and RNG manipulation that entails.
well, oppening all chests implies getting all keys and most of the items I just mentioned, for more completition all keys have to be used on the door they go into, a lot of them actually have to be used, there are just a few optional ones anyways, it is more routing to be done but I think it's important for the game to feel complete and also making it feel different than an all dungeons run
I frogot to mention getting all magic spells which some are not optional and the others you just have to buy from an npc or go into a room, get it and leave
about the gold as I said, I might not include it since it's just grinding and killing enemies as you pass by them, it might also be not RTA viable, something else that can be done is leveling up all fairies to level 20 (max), but that's also just grinding, it makes the game feel more complete but I don't know, might exlude it too
well I'll just make the tas and when I submit it, I'll list all the details, I hope the people from the non existing community will agree with my rules
also I will keep the rule to obtain and keep all armory, all weapons, fairies and unique items, that's a most in my perspective, maybe not the valuable items, those are kinda meh, excluding them can make room for inventory tweeks I guess
thanks for the answers
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ZoroarkGX wrote:
one last thing, there is a key item for the story that you're supposed to trade and eventually get rid of, but using a glitch it can actually be kept, that would make up for the empty space in the inventory, but I'd like to make it optional since it's supposed to be an item you don't keep, it can also make future runs optimizable since keeping it requires a glitch to skip some stuff and almost making it a requirement to start from the 3rd dungeon, latter on maybe someone would like to start from the first and secon dungeons
Full completion requirements such as completing levels, collecting items, or incrementing a progress counter must be met through gameplay means only. Requirements may not be bypassed through heavy glitching or memory/save corruption.
Full completion should not require glitches and depend on them.
Overall, full completion usually implies maxing out limited one-time resources (which is why it's called "full"). In rare cases that's not feasible, so we allow "maximum X" when you can't fully exhaust anything. There's also [2339] SNES Chrono Trigger "completionist" by Saturn in 5:44:58.18 tho.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Hey Judges,
I'd like to ask (plea) about the acceptability of a disk set for Apple II's Prince of Persia.
md5sum: ad841fb8aa3753a1f90f078de65370a5 prince of persia side a (san inc crack).dsk
md5sum: ddd3af336482d65521d043eea0283df1 prince of persia side b (san inc crack).dsk
I searched high and low and could not find an original (uncracked) copy of the game. These disks contain a version of the game that overcomes the game's copy protection. Other versions of the game I found out there are also cracked, with the addition of hax0r l33t screens that ruin the experience.
Since this game's protection is only logical, and not an interactive screen like in [5206] DOS Prince of Persia by eien86 in 13:59.15 or [5296] DOS Out of This World by eien86 in 09:56.54, I'd say there's no content lost.
Either an approval that I can go on with these images, or someone finding actual original copies (and a way to overcome their protection via inputs) would unblock me in starting this project.
Thanks!
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TOSEC only knows about cracked versions, I guess it's good enough here.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I had a question about the game Cabbage Patch Kids for Colecovision. For this game, there are 10 screens per level, and there are 100 levels before the credits are displayed on screen. Aside from the credits, I think that unique content stops by level 5. What is the best endpoint for this game?
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Lobsterzelda wrote:
I had a question about the game Cabbage Patch Kids for Colecovision. For this game, there are 10 screens per level, and there are 100 levels before the credits are displayed on screen. Aside from the credits, I think that unique content stops by level 5. What is the best endpoint for this game?
For games with a conventional ending, that ending is where it should end.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I had a question about the game Cabbage Patch Kids for Colecovision. For this game, there are 10 screens per level, and there are 100 levels before the credits are displayed on screen. Aside from the credits, I think that unique content stops by level 5. What is the best endpoint for this game?
For games with a conventional ending, that ending is where it should end.
Technically, you can continue playing indefinitely after level 100 and nothing changes - but yeah, that makes sense to me (I figured level 100 is probably the most logical ending).
