Martin and I have been messing with savestates for years to do crazy things with mk64. The following will be an introduction to what we have done to map out what should be done.
The most obvious option is to do time trials and beat all the current WR's over at mariokart64.com This can be done but the result will not be considerably more impressive than what has already been accomplished over there. The only truely crazy techniques that could be used would be special shortcuts that are extremely difficult to do in real time. For example, 3/3 Mylestyle on LR Shortcut (SC), 6/6 SC on CM, and a more aggressive 3lap strategy on WS SC (like the fast lap (flap) strategy on all laps).
Those are potential intrests but, something that is even more interesting in my opinion is the 2-player vs. GP mode. In this mode, there is a timer for laps and the full race and other players can be used to allow shortcuts not possible otherwise. The following is a description of a subset of those SC's that Martin and I have discussed or made videos of (note, these videos were made using savestates and video editing equipment to compile the video based on savestates):
1. Royal Raceway:
Video: http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/SavestateUsage/rry1870.avi
(Note, this video does not get the special warp SC that would allow for the path shown in the map)
2. Bowser Castle:
Video:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/SavestateUsage/BC_SC_Weatherton.avi
Also, I tried another angle but it seems just out of reach and the setup time may make it infeasible anyway:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/SavestateUsage/BC_SC_NoCigarWeatherton.avi
3. Banshee Boardwalk:
Video:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/SavestateUsage/BB_gpSC_Weatherton.avi
(Note: please forgive the low framerate here, the settings on the recording software were wrong and reproducing the shortcut proved extremely difficult)
4. Rainbow Road:
Video:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/SavestateUsage/RRd_GP_1328.wmv
5. Sherbet Lan:
Moving on to more difficult strategies, the orange path in this picture is theoretically possible and all parts of it have been tested but not compiled into one run. The strategy requires the use of the other computer players after getting the second player out to the island so that the first player can jump out to the island and jump off player two (who can get out by other means such as running into player one while they have a star)... the setup for this may make it only worthwhile for a fast lap but it would be a very exciting turn of events:
(and, yes, you can drive on the island in the middle with the Big Penguin)
I will add more as I find the time but this should be a good introduction into what is possible for the future. If you would like to see more, poke around at:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/
If you'd like to see a fun highlight real I compiled of all things kart (from WR videos to savestate play arounds) check out this:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/mk64_compilation_WeathertonFULL.wmv
OMG HAX!!!!
Those videos are pretty awesome, who would have know bowser could launch you up above royal raceway!! It will be pretty difficult to figure out all the permutations w/two players, but I'm sure something awesome will be found.
Can you explain in detail what happened in rainbow road? I got confused by the time splits, but I gather, this is the fastest method to get a record time (since the "Bowser catapult" is at the start of the checkered flag)?
Great vids/images! Look forward to see a world record recording! :)
The Rainbow Road (RRd) video shows a method of tricking the game into thinking you have completed a lap but still putting you back where you jumped from. The specifics of it are not completely understood but it was discovered quite a while ago. Here is the first video:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/UnusedStrats/malc-%20rain%20trick.avi
mk64 has some weird issues with finish lines and they don't always behave as you would think they should as can be seen by the SC's on YV and FS, for example. If you want to see any time trials videos, you should be able to find or request them on mariokart64.com or, if you want, SDA hosts the highest quality (but not necessarily fastest) ones: http://speeddemosarchive.com/MarioKart64.html
The Rainbow Road (RRd) video shows a method of tricking the game into thinking you have completed a lap but still putting you back where you jumped from. The specifics of it are not completely understood but it was discovered quite a while ago. Here is the first video:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/UnusedStrats/malc-%20rain%20trick.avi
mk64 has some weird issues with finish lines and they don't always behave as you would think they should as can be seen by the SC's on YV and FS, for example. If you want to see any time trials videos, you should be able to find or request them on mariokart64.com or, if you want, SDA hosts the highest quality (but not necessarily fastest) ones: http://speeddemosarchive.com/MarioKart64.html
Yeah, I'm QUITE active at SDA, but I didn't realize that the RAINBOW ROAD shortcut was the same as the one in SDA (is it the same, I'm not so sure now), using the second player probably threw me off.
I know about the finish line glitches, often doing the EASY Frappe Snowland trick to surprise my friends when I lag behind. I've done the YV one pretty consistently (but not the hardest one).
IIRC, Radix has rejected some of the recent console world records, because the quality of the video was sub-par.
I'm pretty sure you don't need to player jump to perform the shortcut on Rainbow Road.
Yes you do, I can assure you it's been tested very extensively, the fence is too high to jump over it in that part.
Another interesting speed-up is the use of frame-perfect slide boosts. I believe one slide boost will increase the top speed from 65 km/h to 70 km/h with a duration of about 2 seconds (maybe Michael can verify the exact time). Also, since slide boosts in speedruns are mostly around turns, they can be used constantly, even on straight roads.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Fantasic videos Weatherton! So many things I never knew or ever could imagine... We badly need a Mario 64 Kart run (preferably shortcut run) in our community..
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
I believe one slide boost will increase the top speed from 65 km/h to 70 km/h with a duration of about 2 seconds (maybe Michael can verify the exact time).
I think it's something like 70 to 80, I'm not sure exactly. It's hard to say exactly how long the boost lasts because you speed up and then slow down gradually.
MK64 is a unique game in that it has course ghosts. This means that even though the emulator wont let you record, it is still possible to record through the use of the ghost function and save states. The only real problem would be frame accurate input. If this could be hacked into an emulator, of if it already exists in one, then ghosts can be manipulated. The only problem is that the game does not have a method for replaying memory card saved ghosts besides replaying them alongside current gameplay. If someone can hack that into the rom, that would make this work. I would love to see this done.
All, I can't believe this but I just learned that Martin committed suicide... he was a key partner in this project and also a friend. I am absolutely shocked and am also mad, at him and at myself for not trying to be more helpful to him.
if you would like to voice your reactions and see those of others, the topic is here:
http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1131901120
Maybe someday I will begin a TAS of mk64 in his honor -- it's something that I know was important to him.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Weatherton wrote:
All, I can't believe this but I just learned that Martin committed suicide... he was a key partner in this project and also a friend. I am absolutely shocked and am also mad, at him and at myself for not trying to be more helpful to him.
if you would like to voice your reactions and see those of others, the topic is here:
http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1131901120
Maybe someday I will begin a TAS of mk64 in his honor -- it's something that I know was important to him.
I cannot imagine your pain Watherton but I would like to deliver my deepest condolences.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
All, I can't believe this but I just learned that Martin committed suicide... he was a key partner in this project and also a friend. I am absolutely shocked and am also mad, at him and at myself for not trying to be more helpful to him.
if you would like to voice your reactions and see those of others, the topic is here:
http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1131901120
Maybe someday I will begin a TAS of mk64 in his honor -- it's something that I know was important to him.
I'm sorry you had to experience such a tragic loss. I've read part of the thread you've linked and it seems like he will be missed greatly. I offer my deepest condolences and hope you can recover.
All, I can't believe this but I just learned that Martin committed suicide... he was a key partner in this project and also a friend. I am absolutely shocked and am also mad, at him and at myself for not trying to be more helpful to him.
if you would like to voice your reactions and see those of others, the topic is here:
http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1131901120
Maybe someday I will begin a TAS of mk64 in his honor -- it's something that I know was important to him.
I am extremely sorry to hear about your loss......
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 97
Location: Everywhere including nowhere
Weatherton wrote:
The Rainbow Road (RRd) video shows a method of tricking the game into thinking you have completed a lap but still putting you back where you jumped from. The specifics of it are not completely understood but it was discovered quite a while ago.
This is what I always heard (please note that I did not make the game nor have I disassembled the cartridge or decompiled the ROM, I'm just stating what I understand to be the case based on my knowledge of the glitches and the circumstances under which they occur):
1. When you drive backwards across the finish line, the game sets some sort of flag that prevents it from counting the lap when you cross it the normal direction again.
2. The game's internal finish line extends quite a distance in either direction of the visible finish line. That way it will still give you a lap if you are off the course. Note, however, that this internal finish line is still not infinite in length.
(For those of familiar with the Choco Island lap skip in the original SNES Mario kart, it works by driving backwards around this internal finish line by driving out into the ocean and veering at the last possible second)
3. Lakitu has a series of "drop-off points" throughout every course. When you fall, he will drop you off at the nearest drop-off point to where you last touched the track before you fell.
(This is how the Frappe Snowland lap skip works; since the snow is not considered on track, you can get a quick lap by driving straight from the wooden bridge onto the snow, crossing the finish line to get one lap, then veering out to get picked up by Lakitu, where you'll be dropped off on the bridge in good time for another lap)
The Rainbow Road (RRd) video shows a method of tricking the game into thinking you have completed a lap but still putting you back where you jumped from. The specifics of it are not completely understood but it was discovered quite a while ago.
This is what I always heard (please note that I did not make the game nor have I disassembled the cartridge or decompiled the ROM, I'm just stating what I understand to be the case based on my knowledge of the glitches and the circumstances under which they occur):
1. When you drive backwards across the finish line, the game sets some sort of flag that prevents it from counting the lap when you cross it the normal direction again.
2. The game's internal finish line extends quite a distance in either direction of the visible finish line. That way it will still give you a lap if you are off the course. Note, however, that this internal finish line is still not infinite in length.
(For those of familiar with the Choco Island lap skip in the original SNES Mario kart, it works by driving backwards around this internal finish line by driving out into the ocean and veering at the last possible second)
3. Lakitu has a series of "drop-off points" throughout every course. When you fall, he will drop you off at the nearest drop-off point to where you last touched the track before you fell.
(This is how the Frappe Snowland lap skip works; since the snow is not considered on track, you can get a quick lap by driving straight from the wooden bridge onto the snow, crossing the finish line to get one lap, then veering out to get picked up by Lakitu, where you'll be dropped off on the bridge in good time for another lap)
That was reasonably well explained and is about the extent to which we understand these types of shortcuts to occur. However, there is a much more complex version of the Frappe Snowland fastlap shortcut that involves going backwards after crossing the finish line, your described process could still be valid for this but it seems a bit different.
In any case, I am prepared to begin this TAS. My only request is that somone help me out on getting started. I did a TAS for Outrun on the genesis and had very frustrating desyncing issues that may have been related to me incorrectly rerecording. Could someone please post here with a link to the newest version of rerecording Mupen, the settings I should use and a step by step on how to re-record with it? Also, what are some handy tips for avoiding overwriting my work?
My plan is to choose a cup and go through it on VS GP mode, the quality of the play will be impressive but not perfect. This is a trial run.
I believe one slide boost will increase the top speed from 65 km/h to 70 km/h with a duration of about 2 seconds (maybe Michael can verify the exact time).
I think it's something like 70 to 80, I'm not sure exactly. It's hard to say exactly how long the boost lasts because you speed up and then slow down gradually.
I've gone of the top of the scale (110km/h) by doing a SSMT downhill with star power in 150cc. You could probably hit 120 if you did it during a boost from another player.
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
I have decided my goal is to the Special cup on 2-player GP, 150cc and beat it as fast as possible. This could, potentially be a published movie as it defeats the game as fast as possible (I would see the ending). Of course, a full movie would involve Gold Trophy's on each cup in 150cc (atleast that's what seems reasonable to me). But, that will have to wait for soft resets to be recordable since the celebrations would be far too long.
Again, I am waiting for someone to address my request in the previous post; thanks.
If it weren't for the fact that both players need to finish to advance....
My Estimated Times would be:
DKJP: 20"5
YV: 27"9
BC: 5X"XX
RRd: 1'5X"XX
For a Total Time of under 4 minutes before the ceremony begins, that's significantly faster than the RRd non-sc 3lap
I guess it may make more sense to do single level runs in 2 player VS so that I can move on to the next track right away... Any thoughts?
I did a TAS for Outrun on the genesis and had very frustrating desyncing issues that may have been related to me incorrectly rerecording. Could someone please post here with a link to the newest version of rerecording Mupen, the settings I should use and a step by step on how to re-record with it? Also, what are some handy tips for avoiding overwriting my work?
As far as I can tell (EDIT months later: this is definitely not true anymore with the development on Gens since then), Mupen64 actually has fewer desync problem than Gens, and is more lenient about the order you can load savestates than Gens was before. Some tips are:
Turn off "Raw Input" or use an input plugin such as this one that doesn't allow it. This is important for avoiding desync.
Every savestate you make contains the whole movie in it. So even if you normally only use 4 savestates, I recommend using all 9 savestates occasionally because they act like backups. Just load the state in non-read-only mode to restore the movie to how it was when you saved it.
There is a hotkey to change the movie's read-only mode while it's still playing or recording. Default is Shift+8 (*). You can keep a savestate earlier than the others and use this to watch your progress since that savestate, to reach parts where you accidentally saved over your other savestates after a mistake.
For resuming recording, if you pause and then choose play movie, then load the savestate you want to continue from, it skips re-loading the ROM, which saves some time getting started.
After loading the ROM, wait a few seconds until you're sure the game is running before choosing to play or record a movie.
The newest released Mupen64 with re-recording is still here.
Video: http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/SavestateUsage/rry1870.avi
(Note, this video does not get the special warp SC that would allow for the path shown in the map)
2. Bowser Castle:
Video:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/SavestateUsage/BC_SC_Weatherton.avi
Also, I tried another angle but it seems just out of reach and the setup time may make it infeasible anyway:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/SavestateUsage/BC_SC_NoCigarWeatherton.avi
3. Banshee Boardwalk:
Video:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/SavestateUsage/BB_gpSC_Weatherton.avi
(Note: please forgive the low framerate here, the settings on the recording software were wrong and reproducing the shortcut proved extremely difficult)
4. Rainbow Road:
Video:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/SavestateUsage/RRd_GP_1328.wmv
5. Sherbet Lan:
Moving on to more difficult strategies, the orange path in this picture is theoretically possible and all parts of it have been tested but not compiled into one run. The strategy requires the use of the other computer players after getting the second player out to the island so that the first player can jump out to the island and jump off player two (who can get out by other means such as running into player one while they have a star)... the setup for this may make it only worthwhile for a fast lap but it would be a very exciting turn of events:
(and, yes, you can drive on the island in the middle with the Big Penguin)
I will add more as I find the time but this should be a good introduction into what is possible for the future. If you would like to see more, poke around at:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/
If you'd like to see a fun highlight real I compiled of all things kart (from WR videos to savestate play arounds) check out this:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/MarioKart/mk64TimeAttack/mk64_compilation_WeathertonFULL.wmv
