Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
No, I'm not suggesting to duplicate their meaning, I'm asking to replace these two tags altogether with two new flags. Since these two affect class-eligibility as you wrote, that's exactly why they should be given special emphasis, and not being put together with trivial aspects of a movie, that are all the other tags.
Also, I don't think that "people don't pay attention" when the interface simply is cluttered and confusing, and could be improved in many ways.
If it needs to be improved, it will be improved on the new site.
Flags are not as expressive as words, so how would you even draw an icon meaning "Forgoes major skip glitch" and potentially other tags like "Forgoes warps"? I don't want people to try to learn and remember 10 icon meanings (potentially more).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
For Standard, we currently have Fastest Completion, Full Completion and No Major Skips (I know there will be more in the future but at the time of my post they are not implemented).
No Major Skips is by its definition a Fastest Completion category/branch without the use of Major-Skip Glitches as the percentage of game completion isn't important only the time to complete the game...
So What I suggest is to add the No Major-Skips possible as well for Full Completion and any other new goals that would be accepted into Standard if it fits.
Fastest Completion and Full Completion are both about the Completion so here are the goals for example and then "Warps"(fastest completion), "Warpless"(fastest or full completion), "score attack"(closer from full completion) would be sub-Goals which could be named differently.
This last paragraph is only suggestion but atleast accepting No Major-Skip and maybe the future "glitchless/No heavy glitch" for Full Completion is what I'm looking to change if possible.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
MNG full completion is being considered for the future. The question about it and your other suggestion is, is it a standard goal at this point? Is it common, popular, clear, obvious? How many currently published movies have this NMG extension alongside the goal that has major skips?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Sorry for the long wait of the answer.
feos wrote:
How many currently published movies have this NMG extension alongside the goal that has major skips?
I don't think we can use as an argument movies that are already published on the site as it is irrevelant to the discussion because :
First, we need to define a context where the NMG full completion could apply :
- A game where a Major-Skip Glitch is known
- The use of this Major-Skip glitch in a context of full completion doesn't go in conflict with the full completion goal itself.
For the second point above, I mean by this that I don't see a "all levels" run where this is the only way to define full completion to be using a Major-skip glitch. So the fastest "all levels" run which respects the full completion rules (that I mostly agree with) is without the use of this major-skip glitch as most of the full completion TASes on the site.
It is then irrevelant to take as conter-example movies where full completion is in conflict with the use of a Major-Skip glitch.
So there isn't a lot of movies where a Major-Skip glitch and full completion could apply.
feos wrote:
MNG full completion is being considered for the future. The question about it and your other suggestion is, is it a standard goal at this point? Is it common, popular, clear, obvious?
In the context eplained above, I think NMG full completion is a standard goal and that it is common, popular, clear and obvious. Both of thesegames are a good example of this if we do a NMG full completion in them.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
ViGadeomes wrote:
feos wrote:
How many currently published movies have this NMG extension alongside the goal that has major skips?
I don't think we can use as an argument movies that are already published on the site as it is irrevelant to the discussion because :
It's relevant to the discussion about goals allowed for the Standard class, because the nature of the class is allowing common and objective (basically standard) goals:
MovieRules wrote:
Standard class houses a majority of the movies on the site. It contains speedrun records with common, objective goals. Goal choice should be as objective as possible.
ViGadeomes wrote:
First, we need to define a context where the NMG full completion could apply :
- A game where a Major-Skip Glitch is known
- The use of this Major-Skip glitch in a context of full completion doesn't go in conflict with the full completion goal itself.
For the second point above, I mean by this that I don't see a "all levels" run where this is the only way to define full completion to be using a Major-skip glitch. So the fastest "all levels" run which respects the full completion rules (that I mostly agree with) is without the use of this major-skip glitch as most of the full completion TASes on the site.
It is then irrevelant to take as conter-example movies where full completion is in conflict with the use of a Major-Skip glitch.
So there isn't a lot of movies where a Major-Skip glitch and full completion could apply.
feos wrote:
MNG full completion is being considered for the future. The question about it and your other suggestion is, is it a standard goal at this point? Is it common, popular, clear, obvious?
In the context eplained above, I think NMG full completion is a standard goal and that it is common, popular, clear and obvious. Both of thesegames are a good example of this if we do a NMG full completion in them.
If it was common and popular, then we'd have a lot of movies of it in Moons, and a lot of movies of it rejected (or obsoleted) for not being entertaining enough.
To put it differently, can't we just unobsolete those that didn't have the MSG and have them in Moons?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
