This topic is for the purpose of discussing #7192: AleMastroianni's PSX Crash Team Racing "game end glitch" in 19:21.59

So... Avoids Game End Glitch because game doesn't recognize it as a completion. Uses the method for Game End Glitch, but doesn't act on it the actual ending part of it. Somehow through "voodoo magic" is able to be controlled just enough that Oxide is actually Crash and OH MY GOD THE LORE THICKENS! CRASH ACTUALLY WANTS TO COVER THE GLOBE TO BE HIS CONCRETE PARKING LOT. I have no idea what the hell happened. Downtime kills full enjoyment, but the payoff was still enough for me to give it a Yes vote.

I have no idea what's going on, but Oxide being Crash all along is too good to pass up on.

Another one of my childhood PS1 games! Yes vote!

I'd consider removing ACE from the movie goals since no arbitrary code execution was used in this run. I have one suggestion about editing the explanation of the item storage glitch, the way it was explained by the author is very confusing:

Having this in place, and joining the track Dingo Canyon (first in the array of the game), the game goes out of bounds with LEV_ID being negative due to the operation the game itself does to switch from common trophy races to crystal challenges, which usually happen in Battle Arenas (like Skull Rock).

What actually happens is that when you have the battle mode end of race code running, the game makes a copy of an array to the stack and uses it to award the player. The catch is: the index number of race levels are less than the index number of battle levels, so when calculating the reward with this glitch activated, the game will access variables out of bounds in the stack. Luckily for Dingo Canyon, the variable it accesses is one of your camera values, so it ends up being possible to manipulate a reasonable range of the memory, including some variables about the game completion status (e.g items, highscores). I have a consideration to make about the category description. Quoting the author:

This is CTR: Crash Team Racing Any%. This category uses the Battle Mode Warp Glitch but not to jump directly to the credits, since that method does NOT have oxide beaten in the game ram, but its just a cutscene warp. This instead is the fastest completion of the game by having the final boss beaten in the game ram. All skips are allowed, the goal is to beat """Oxide""".

This is not the fastest way to watch the cutscene while having Oxide beat in RAM. As you can check in the item table, it's possible to manipulate the Oxide star (08FBB0 & 0x4) and then warp to the credits. This brings the discussion of what truly means to beat the game, and what state of the game should be considered to award completion. If you consider the oxide star as beating the game, then one item manipulation in Dingo Canyon is enough. If you consider star + cutscene, then you can obtain the star via item manipulation and warp to the cutscene. If you just consider the final state the ending cutscene, then warping to the credits is enough. I personally believe that obtaining the star via item manipulation (just like the keys are obtained) is a valid way to skip the final boss, since the game gives you all awards from doing so. I believe the author probably considered the idea of reaching the final state of the game something else (otherwise the strategy used for this run would be suboptimal), thus re-writing the rules of the category may be necessary. Final considerations: Hub 1 was very well played, the gameplay is entertaining and optimized. The item storage glitch itself is a boring glitch to watch, but it's a quite interesting exploit which may peak people's interest to read about in the run's description. EDIT: clear description of the item manipulation glitch and final considerations

Yeah, this TAS category is in an interesting place. I think the idea is 'it's not really beating the game unless you beat the final boss', but it also beats a glitched version of the final boss fight with the wrong opponent and wrong map, that happens to still take you to the end cutscene after beating it. To use an analogy: Is it morally equivalent to beating Red in Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal by using an instant win glitch to trigger the credits?

I think this rusn into some frictions due to some discrepancies between actual speedruns and tases. For one, following whats stated on movie rules by TASVideos, unlocking a level is allowed (that would have saved 1 extra round every time i warped from Battle Mode), which i intentionally didnt do cause this TAS started from the base of the current rules on: https://www.speedrun.com/ctr/full_game#Any_Warpless, which states that using in game cheats isnt allowed. Second, it also states that using the “wrong warp” glitch is prohibited strictly for the end cutscene (this got updated precisely since the item manipulation glitch was found, allowing this route) From the category rules, in the link i posted above: “Timing starts upon gaining control of your character after the first loading screen and ends upon crossing the finish line of the final race against Nitrous Oxide. Using Item Manipulation in Dingo Canyon is allowed Using ingame cheats is banned. Savestates on emulators may not be used to reset runs. Battle Mode wrong warp glitch to warp to the credits is NOT allowed in this category.” Timing starting and ending has always been specific to TASes, so i dont need to adress the first line. The rest of the paragraph sums up what i was just pointing. Now, if i were to say that this tas idea didnt originate from the game speedrun category (which it did, arbitrarely), i would find myself in trouble of defining a “clear ending”, if i were to change it to what RedHot suggested. I would first just beat the final boss randomly when collecting a wumpa, not clear at all to the viewer, and minutes later just perform the wrong warp to skip directly to an ending cutscene, without the podium after winning the final race. I cant say i find this an “ending” of the game. At that point one would just perform the geg glitch 16 times in a row, without driving at all, skipping to just an ending cutscene. I think RedHot brings some valid points, and i agree with him to an extent, but i dont consider doing the things 2 manipulations separately as an end to the game. I overall liked the purpose of this tas, balancing somehow the entertainment and the downtime as opposed to the plain and repetitive cutscene skip. I will edit the submission text to include RedHot explanation, which is definitely more clear

I would first just beat the final boss randomly when collecting a wumpa, not clear at all to the viewer, and minutes later just perform the wrong warp to skip directly to an ending cutscene, without the podium after winning the final race. I cant say i find this an “ending” of the game. At that point one would just perform the geg glitch 16 times in a row, without driving at all, skipping to just an ending cutscene. I think RedHot brings some valid points, and i agree with him to an extent, but i dont consider doing the things 2 manipulations separately as an end to the game. I overall liked the purpose of this tas, balancing somehow the entertainment and the downtime as opposed to the plain and repetitive cutscene skip. I will edit the submission text to include RedHot explanation, which is definitely more clear

"Fastest completion" doesn't have to be entertaining to be accepted. And if memory corruption is used and leads to a glitchy major skip, often it is not entertaining. And since we ditched the concept of tiers and the Vault, any% just goes straight to Standard, no need to aim for entertainment and get Moons. If a movie gets good rating, great, but it's not a requirement for anything anymore, for goals that are eligible for Wiki: Standard. Since glitched endings are a confusing territory in terms of completion legitimacy, we rely on a few things that prove that it's "legitimate enough".

Runs that incorporate "game end glitch" techniques need certain verification on whether the ending really occurs. It can be done by comparing how the game acts after it ended normally, with how it acts after it was glitch-ended. Missing some critical ending routines would mean it was not really completed.

So as long as you're completing the correct mode, and the ending is the same, and the game behaves the same afterwards, it's a valid completion, technically. With that said, I wouldn't want to reject this run for doing things "wrong" or "suboptimally". Yet I wouldn't want to reject a future attempt to obsolete this run, that does less, while still calling the right ending from the right mode. If that ever happens!

I see, that makes sense, in that case, from a technical standpoint, if things are this way from tasvideos guidelines, im more than happy to postpone this tas and improve it while having the fastest completition, since now Vault is gone.

om, nom, nom... blech!

I was about to accept it...

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4527] PSX Crash Team Racing "game end glitch" by AleMastroianni in 19:21.59