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[TAS] Prince of Persia (DOS, 1990) any% by eien86 in 12:09.333
In this timeless classic, the tyrant Jaffar has seized power and has forced Sultan's daughter to marry him. You, the brave youth who is a prisoner in Jaffar's dungeons must rescue her within 60 minutes. Little does poor Jaffar know that he will be defeated in a fifth of the intended time.
- Total IGT: 12m 09s 333ms
- Level Skip IGT: 08m 58s (Estimated)
- Total RT: 12m 59s 666ms

Game objectives

The objective of the game is to beat all 14 levels in less than 60 minutes (IGT). In the "any%" category, all tricks and glitches are allowed except for the use of cheats. This category requires that all levels are completed (without skipping the first three levels using the SHIFT+L code).
This movie makes the best effort to reduce the real time to solution. However, it is the IGT the one used as the metric for speed, as it omits cutscenes and account for changes in framerate (the game operates in 12 FPS normally, but 10 FPS during combat). The IGT starts immediately on Level 1 and stops as soon as Jaffar dies in Level 13, as this is the time taken for the high-score board. Level 14 is only accounted for in RT, hence the difference between both times.
A potential level Skip run IGT can be obtained by subtracting the time for the first 3 levels. In this case, it results in an estimate of 08:58m which a notable improvement compared to 12:20.58 of the previous level-skip TAS produced by David Newton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfOocUkxJ08).
In general, this run abides by the same rules as the RTA runs (https://www.speedrun.com/pop1). Only difference is that we use the Prince of Persia 1.0 version as emulation for newer versions does not handle sounds well. Here some guard reaction times and probabilities are changed, but overall the gameplay is the same.

Comments

This movie is the result of decades of routing and discoveries, and has been developed with extensive help from the current speedrunner community. Notable contributors to the routing are the actual game top speedrunners, such as (in no particular order) crem, CapnClever, 7eraser7, Karlgamer, YOLO4GG, GoodSpectre, Higlak, Velcheran, Creditor, WinterThunder, uvq3tsa, Wolfadawn, KenshinTrek, and GMP.
The route has improved a great deal during the last few years thanks to the use of savestate-enabled emulators (e.g., DosBox-X), allowing players to try different tricks without losing too much time. The development of this TAS is largely based on the existing route but has introduced two novel approaches:
- Frame by Frame Analysis / Memory Debugging
Thanks to the use of emulators (JPC-RR) and memory debuggers (Cheat Engine), the discovery new tricks (e.g., level 7 and 8 skips -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtFVLF5kuds, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlBbu612T1o) that would have not been otherwise possible, as their discovery required a frame-perfect input and RNG-heavy setups. Fortunately, more human-friendly versions of these skips have been developed after their discovery.
- Routing by Exhaustive Seach
The development of an open-source version of the game (SDLPop, https://github.com/NagyD/SDLPoP/) allowed the development of a high-performance parallel breadth-first search bot, called Jaffar (https://github.com/SergioMartin86/jaffar) that exhaustively explores all possible movements in each possible frame. The search is made possible by constraining the exploration space to that of a pre-determined route, requiring a few trillion states per level. As a result, the bot found the most efficient way to traverse the community-established route. We've applied Jaffar repeatedly on a supercomputer to solve for every level. Following strict definitions, the re-Record count is: 836,877,925,474.

Stage by stage comments

Level 1:
The route for this level has been proven to be optimal by the bot on sheer brute force. The strat includes bunny hopping at the beginning for a quick fall and then skip the guard via a timed jump.
Level 2:
A long level. No changes to the route here compared to RTA, but a lot of RNG optimization by the bot to skip all guards faster.
Level 3:
The bot-optimized movement here played a big role in shaving those last few frames. Movement, especially while ascending/descending the way to the exit door open tile has been highly optimized. An RNG-induced hit by the skeleton saves a few backward steps with the sword.
Level 4:
Here a few known skips are used, most notably using the guard to open the first door. The bot's contribution is minimal here, optimizing a few movements before/after the mirror.
Level 5:
Here the door skip is employed to skip a big part of the level. This is performed by luring the guard to the left and then clipping through the door while on-guard. The rest of the level includes the normal route, optimized via the bot.
Level 6:
Here we used the normal route. A nice jump over the hole in the second-to-last screen was found by the bot
Level 7:
Perhaps the most broken of all levels, we employed the newly discovered level 7 skip which contains a whole array of glitches all working in unison. First, we 'moonwalk' the guard through the chomper, then we make him fall 2 stories without dying by exiting and reentering the room. Then we use the guard to perform a 'Yolo skip' through the door. This route was exhaustively optimized by the bot.
Level 8:
Another spectacularly broken level. We lure the guard towards the 'useless' bad potion room and use him to make us clip through the wall and the floor towards the end of the level. This marks the return of the mouse who comes to save the day.
Level 9:
Definitely the longest and hardest to crack level. Here, the only skip found was the damage clip through the last door that allows us to skip making the loose tile fall, saving a few seconds. Other than that, it is still ripe for skips. Here the movements were highly optimized by the bot.
Level 10:
Here we make use of a few tricks, including 'guard jump', 'overflow teleport', 'yolo skip', 'fall damage cancel', and RNG manip. It would be very hard to improve level 10 any further.
Level 11:
This level remains skipless, mainly because of it's layout (all horizontal) it is still hard to crack. However, all moments were optimized by the bot, shaving many frames in the way.
Level 12:
An climbing level, here we use the 'overflow teleport' trick to skip to the shadow screen. Here, we grab the sword and immediately merge with the shadow to exit the level.
Level 13:
Here we used the bot to manipulate RNG to guarantee a fast Jaffar kill. As soon as Jaffar dies, the IGT clock stops.
Level 14:
This level only requires running a few screens, and IGT does not count anymore.

Other comments

This TAS is 28 seconds faster than the current RTA WR, and 10 seconds faster than the sum of human best segments. This speaks to the incredible skills of the RTA runners, who have incorporated most of these seemingly TAS-only tricks into their runs succesfully.
A few more seconds could be gain for this TAS through the following:
- Improvements to Jaffar's memory management can allow for 10-100x wider searches, and perhaps discover new unknown skips.
- Many ideas for skips on later levels are still under research.
- A more robust RNG manipulation throughout the game (not only per-level).
Emulation Issues:
- Sound Blaster emulation seems to cause jittering in this emulator and game version. This is the best setup we've found, as the only other option is using PC Speaker emulation which, besides sounding horrible and ruining the entertainment factor, it affects the way RNG operates and thus also that of the gameplay.

Nach: Judging.


GMP
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Nach wrote:
GMP wrote:
Nach wrote:
Going past guards in certain places means you have completely new routes where you don't need to work around to find a way to open a gate or get an item needed to bypass the guard.
No going past the guards absolutely doesn't change the route at all. The only thing I'm need to kill guards is the sword which the prince has throughout the game. The only reason it's not done is because it is slow.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. In the first level, the prince does not start with the sword, and you have to go left and then back to get it. Going past the guard avoids that. There's two ways to do it, one is jumping through him as seen in the video. The other is to get him to follow you left, and keep doing so till you have a path to walk around him. Then suddenly in the second level you have the sword even though you didn't collect it. In later levels where you go past the guard to push you past a gate, that absolutely changes the route.
Ok in level 1 it does changes the route, but that isn't even swapping sides with him, I just use intended mechanics to get around him. I am not sure what you are talking about in the later levels. Can you point out a timestamp?
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GMP wrote:
I am not sure what you are talking about in the later levels. Can you point out a timestamp?
One example is in level 5, and you described it yourself in your submission notes for that level.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
GMP
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Nach wrote:
One example is in level 5, and you described it yourself in your submission notes for that level.
To quote myself - "Level 5: This level is both heavily RNG and movement based. There is nothing special to talk about this level other than the fact that I got pretty decent RNG from the guards." Where do I mention passing a gate using a guard? That is indeed considered a major glitch. I think you are confused between this submission and my NMG submission, which is why I mentioned earlier why are we discussing about my submission here lol.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
GMP wrote:
Nach wrote:
One example is in level 5, and you described it yourself in your submission notes for that level.
To quote myself - "Level 5: This level is both heavily RNG and movement based. There is nothing special to talk about this level other than the fact that I got pretty decent RNG from the guards." Where do I mention passing a gate using a guard? That is indeed considered a major glitch. I think you are confused between this submission and my NMG submission, which is why I mentioned earlier why are we discussing about my submission here lol.
I am talking about your submission here where you wrote:
eien86 wrote:
Level 5: Here the door skip is employed to skip a big part of the level. This is performed by luring the guard to the left and then clipping through the door while on-guard. The rest of the level includes the normal route, optimized via the bot.
I consider this a major glitch, and that is the sort of thing we've always defined as a major glitch on TASVideos.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
GMP
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Nach wrote:
GMP wrote:
Nach wrote:
One example is in level 5, and you described it yourself in your submission notes for that level.
To quote myself - "Level 5: This level is both heavily RNG and movement based. There is nothing special to talk about this level other than the fact that I got pretty decent RNG from the guards." Where do I mention passing a gate using a guard? That is indeed considered a major glitch. I think you are confused between this submission and my NMG submission, which is why I mentioned earlier why are we discussing about my submission here lol.
I am talking about your submission here where you wrote:
GMP wrote:
Level 5: Here the door skip is employed to skip a big part of the level. This is performed by luring the guard to the left and then clipping through the door while on-guard. The rest of the level includes the normal route, optimized via the bot.
I consider this a major glitch, and that is the sort of thing we've always defined as a major glitch on TASVideos.
Yes, the skip was used here, because this isnt a No Major Glitches run. Hence it isn't submitted as a NMG run, it is submitted as any%. I didn't use this skip in my NMG submission. I think there is a big confusion here. The thread we are in is the submission of eien86's Any% TAS, which has no restrictions other than some standard ones like not using a cheat code. The (offtopic) discussion about my NMG submission started here when Radiant pointed out that I used "arbitrary RTA Rules", for which I clarified I used "arbitrary RTA Rules" of a specific category. For any%, RTA rules don't lay any restrictions either. I hope this clears it up.
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Joined: 3/9/2004
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GMP wrote:
I think there is a big confusion here. The thread we are in is the submission of eien86's Any% TAS, which has no restrictions other than some standard ones like not using a cheat code.
Actually the confusion is that for some reason I was thinking you worked with eien86 on this run and were a coauthor. Sorry about that. Yes, I am talking about this submission.
GMP wrote:
The (offtopic) discussion about my NMG submission started here when Radiant pointed out that I used "arbitrary RTA Rules", for which I clarified I used "arbitrary RTA Rules" of a specific category. For any%, RTA rules don't lay any restrictions either. I hope this clears it up.
From my perspective, Radiant posted a question here as to how we define these glitches as seen in this run as well as others. I am only describing how we normally refer to these. We don't care about what other communities are doing, we care about how we define things.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
GMP
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Nach wrote:
From my perspective, Radiant posted a question here as to how we define these glitches as seen in this run as well as others. I am only describing how we normally refer to these. We don't care about what other communities are doing, we care about how we define things.
I am lost at this point. Are you saying clipping gates by running away from guards should be considered a major glitch? If so, it indeed is considered a major glitch and hence I *didn't* use it at any point in my NMG run, which is here - http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22581 This run does use the glitch because it is a no restrictions run, and also uses all the possible major glitches. Is it clear now? As I said earlier I can understand why you guys feel the ruleset of my other run seem arbitrary. Feel free to reject that run if you strongly think so, but that is not something to be discussed in this thread imo.
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
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GMP wrote:
Are you saying clipping gates by running away from guards should be considered a major glitch?
Yes.
GMP wrote:
This run does use the glitch because it is a no restrictions run, and also uses all the possible major glitches. Is it clear now?
That was never in doubt.
GMP wrote:
As I said earlier I can understand why you guys feel the ruleset of my other run seem arbitrary.
I don't know anything about that other run, I didn't watch it.
GMP wrote:
Feel free to reject that run if you strongly think so, but that is not something to be discussed in this thread imo.
That other run is going to be rejected because it was made using a modified copy of the game.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
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About the major skip glitch definition, which I already linked: http://tasvideos.org/MovieClassGuidelines.html#MajorSkipGlitch
feos wrote:
Back when we introduced this movie class, we had these figures to incorporate into its meaning: SDA's notion of "major skips", our notion "game breaking glitches", and the amount of time that those categories use to save compared to the fastest movie without that technique. The latter introduced one Masterjun - one order of magnitude cut from the previous movie time. Jokes aside, it was clear that we needed to address that the glitch is major and that it skips a lot. So the term is "major skip glitch", and as you can see, after all it doesn't have to corrupt too much - it just has to be an abused bug, and to result in a major skip. How much it corrupts is subjective, how much that damages entertainment is subjective. But when majority of the old route is skipped by a single glitch, it's clearly a major skip glitch. And most of the time it's published as a separate branch. That way with SM we have any% that uses the major skip glitch, and the branchless movie that avoids it, feeling closer to traditional idea of any%. The time difference between them is major, the gameplay difference is major, and the latter is very entertaining, so we can have both published.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
GMP
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Nach wrote:
That other run is going to be rejected because it was made using a modified copy of the game.
So is this run lol. You should already have a PhD in psychology of torturing TASers lol. Its not my fault that you were confused between the two threads, don't show your frustration on me, it's not very professional.
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
GMP wrote:
Its not my fault that you were confused between the two threads, don't show your frustration on me, it's not very professional.
I wasn't confused by the threads. My only confusion is that you and eien86 kept saying "we" so I assumed the both of you worked on these two runs together. If that wasn't the case, then fine. I'm not frustrated either, nor am I trying to antagonize you, I've only tried to clarify our rules. If I hadn't made it clear, I'm sorry. Hopefully feos' post above clarifies anything I failed to regarding major skips.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
GMP
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Posts: 197
Location: Chennai, India
Nach wrote:
I wasn't confused by the threads. My only confusion is that you and eien86 kept saying "we" so I assumed the both of you worked on these two runs together. If that wasn't the case, then fine.
We both know each other very well at point, but yeah our contribution in each other's work was minimal. I primarily did the NMG one and eien did the any% one.
Nach wrote:
I'm not frustrated either, nor am I trying to antagonize you, I've only tried to clarify our rules. If I hadn't made it clear, I'm sorry. Hopefully feos' post above clarifies anything I failed to regarding major skips.
I very much respect the site guidelines, and I will definitely be more careful to follow them if I ever work on another submission. I am really sorry if I came across as annoying. And yeah feos' message did clarify a lot. Thanks for understanding :D
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GMP wrote:
The (offtopic) discussion about my NMG submission started here when Radiant pointed out that I used "arbitrary RTA Rules", for which I clarified I used "arbitrary RTA Rules" of a specific category. For any%, RTA rules don't lay any restrictions either. I hope this clears it up.
To clarify, in this thread I was initially responding to feos, who asked if the difference between the two runs is that one uses a Major Skip Glitch (by the TAS definition, which he linked). Eien responded yes; and I wanted to clear up that no, the difference is actually that one run uses glitches by the RTA definition.