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Posted: 8/4/2019 8:13 PM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I found a better route for Fat Gate Thief today, on level 19, which saves almost 1 second. Instead of climbing all the way to the top gate, I stopped at the top level of the room below, did a double u-turn, and jumped LEFT towards the gate in the wall, one level below. The prince clips through the top of the gate, and lands in the next room. From there, run through the next gate, and climb up to the last gate before Jaffar. This skip also works for Gate Thief #2 (the wobbling sword prince), and the Static Sword sprite. However, Gate Thief #1 & #3 are unable to do this shortcut. Additionally, I found that Fat Gate Thief can jump through the Final Gate (after Jaffar) without pressing the button. This saves several seconds. These two new route updates for Level 19 put Fat Gate Thief at 532 time units, only 2 units slower than Gate Thief #1 at 530. (GT#1 has the superior route, but loses time having to push the gate button at the end.) I also shaved a time unit off level 18, to get clock display down to 2:01. Fat Gate Thief improved times: Level 18 -- 863 time units = "2:01." Level 19 -- 532 time units = "1:15." Applying these to the Sub-9 route reduces the potential by about 4 seconds. TAS should easily be under 8:45. I'll try to make & upload some videos for these Fat Gate Thief levels soon. EDIT: Here's a temporary video for the new level 19 route. I don't have my usual video setup available, so I'll go back and make a better video later. But this will suffice for now, so you can see it. Link to video Fat Gate Thief -- Level 19 -- "1:15"
Posted: 8/31/2019 5:37 PM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
another small, silly update. We know that when you explore "Playable Level Zero", and beat the level, the next level you will play is Level One. Presumably, this is because the number 0 precedes the number 1. I have come across two instances where Level Zero has been beaten without actually going to an Exit Door. In both instances, the Prince subsequently begins Level One. In the first instance, following the route for my sub-9 run, we visit the guard, proceed to hole #5, and then, instead of exiting, continue to the LEFT in Playable Zero to hole #6 (which warps to level 4). This pattern, instead of warping to level 4, triggers the sound of the Prince climbing the stairs, the sound of a level being beaten, and the Prince goes to level one. In the second instance, a variation of the sub-9 route reaches level 18 with the Fat Gate Thief, does the warp #1 on Level 18 (which either triggers warp to 18 Checkpoint, or warp to unplayable Level Zero within 18), and this variation similarly triggers the sound of the Prince climbing the stairs, the sound of a level being beaten, and the Prince goes to level one. So this does, in theory, answer one question that has been bugging me: What happens if you get into a "Playable Level Zero" on a non-Level-One course? Apparently, the answer is that even though it appears to be the non-Level-One course, it is still, according to the game, "Level Zero", which must be followed by "Level One" upon completion. While we have yet to find a real Playable Level Zero on a non-Level-One course, we know from experience that if such a discovery was possible, a sword-draw would still follow the same principle of completing a warp associated with the hole used. In the case of Level 18, if a stable Playable Level Zero was found, a sword draw would probably warp to Level 18 Checkpoint, since both warp sites are associated with Level 18 Checkpoint. By the way, I didn't announce this before, but I did find a stable warp to Level 18 Checkpoint. The funny part is that the hole is after the checkpoint, so using it would be considered a small negative progress. lol. Overall, I think this playable level zero discovery is a small disappointment. I had hoped that one day a Playable Level Zero might be achieved on a Non-Level-One course, with the hopes that something very interesting might happen after beating it. But it would seem that no matter where you are, any Playable Zero course will be followed by Level One.
Posted: 12/13/2019 6:19 AM
(Edited: 12/29/2019 6:30 PM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I'm back! I have tentative plans to work on an "All 20 Levels" speedrun with Gate Thief #1. So, as I have already documented levels 6-20, I'm now working on videos for levels 2-5. (Of course level 1 is already covered in the basic setup for acquiring the Gate Thief skin.) First, I've finally captured level 4, after a couple hundred failed attempts. I got my record of 354 time units on two different occasions, and of course in both instances I was not recording a video at the time. It proved unbelievably difficult to do it a third time on video! When I finally had it recorded, and compared it to several 355 videos, I found that the trick is to get a quick jump when leaving the island, and of course perfect squat timing when approaching the two loose panels at the end. Due to the odd spacing of the last two gates, it is not feasible to just run and jump through them, as you will end up sailing past the END BUTTON, and have to turn around and run back to it. So, the less attractive Double-Turn method is employed at both gates at the end of the level. Also, as this is in preparation of an "All 20 Levels" speedrun, of course it will not include a Warp With Invincibility. So this and other upcoming videos will show Non-Invincibility Routes for Levels 2-5. (You may recall that on previous pages, I have uploaded new videos for Levels 13 & 14, which show their Non-Invincibility Routes also.) Gate Thief #1 -- Level 4 -- 0:50. Link to video 354 time units = 49.976 seconds on the in-game clock. More to come! Having already achieved my goal of sub-9 with the Fat Gate Thief, I have not prioritized another run with the new level 19 route from my most recent video above. With minimal mistakes, an 8:50 should be doable by a human. An 8:49.9 would be my next goal. But at the moment, I'm more intrigued with the idea of beating all 20 levels with Gate Thief #1. In the coming days, I will prepare an estimated time to beat. Off the top of my head, I'm guessing something near 25 minutes would be realistic. Hopefully sub-25. Details coming soon!
Posted: 12/28/2019 1:45 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I recorded a demo today, so I could lay the framework for the 20-levels gate thief speedrun. A performance that matches all of my personal bests per level (most of the videos posted in this thread, and a few early levels yet to be properly recorded) will yield a time of approximately 23:27.378. This gives about 18 time units of error to remain below 23:30. One can expect to average 1 lost time unit per level with literally perfect play. Therefore, I think a human cannot break 23:30. For my own playing, I expect that an exceptionally excellent run will average about 2-3 lost time units per level, which would put me around 23:33 - 23:37. Realistically, a couple of small mistakes could quickly put me up to 23:40 - 23:43. Basically, it will take a nearly flawless full run, with only a couple of very small mistakes to clear 23:40. So, I will finish up the videos for 2-5 soon, post them here for everyone's reference, and then I'll see if I can put together a sub-23:40 speedrun. I just realized a part of my framework is a comparison with my first full speedrun, in which I gave extra on-screen time to the password boxes for clarity. This being unnecessary, I think very tight level exits might save 5 seconds or more. I guess I might try to record another demo, and see if I can tighten the estimate. At any rate, this is a good start. human limit -- 23:30 - 23:40. tas limit ------ 23:15 - 23:20.
Posted: 12/29/2019 6:23 PM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Two more levels completed, Level 2 and Level 5. I realized last night I have a few other important videos I still need to make to round out the "documentation", before I start working on a full speedrun. After I do Level 3, I need to go back and update Level 18 for Gate Thief #1, which is now 2 time units faster with the extra jump at the first guard. I also need to document the faster Fat Gate Thief route on Level 18, seen in the Sub-9 Minute Speedrun. And while I'm at it, I'll reshoot the Fat Gate Thief Level 19 video from a better angle. After that, I also want to do a Non-Invincibility Level 14 for Gate Thief #2. At some point I also want to get some kind of video of the Invincibility Route for Level 3, which is quite difficult to replicate. We'll see how that goes. Anyway, here are Levels 2 & 5 for Gate Thief #1. Level 2: Link to video 474 time units = 66.917 seconds. "1:07" Level 5: Link to video 369 time units = 52.094 seconds. "0:52" Level 3 Non-Invincibility Route coming up next.
Posted: 12/30/2019 11:06 PM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Working on Level 3 today. It will be very difficult to beat the TAS in non-invincibility mode, as there is only one potential improvement with the Gate Thief ability, and that is to do three running jumps along the final hallway instead of two, since the Gate Thief can more easily jump under the final gate. However, the spacing requires a wall collision before climbing up toward the Exit Room, so there may only be a potential for 1 time unit saved. Otherwise, the non-invincibility route will be identical to the TAS route. Whereas the Invincibility Route calls for a long drop off the left side of the Skeleton's platform, and will beat the TAS by about 10 or 11 time units. I'm getting pretty sharp on all parts, so hopefully I can crank out both videos tonight. We'll see! (remember, each time unit is about 1/7 of a second, or 4.235 frames @ 30 fps.)
Posted: 12/31/2019 12:12 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I found more time for the TAS to save over the course of the entire game. In addition to the music trick, which saves 6-7 seconds on level 19 (cutting Jaffar's intro short in the Throne Room), you can do the same music trick at the end of each level. As soon as the "end music" starts to play, you can hit "Start + Select" to bring up the music menu, and select Sound #1, which is the Intro Jingle at Startup Logo. This Jingle is faster than End Music, and saves at least 24 frames per level. Multiplied by 19 levels, that's another 15.2 seconds. So the TAS can save almost 22 seconds over Challenger's 33:31, and possibly get down to 33:10. This can still be used in conjunction with the "select menu" trick to save in-game time, while the new jingle plays.
Posted: 1/21/2020 4:22 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Ok, last note before I finish Level 3. As it turns out, the Gate Thief can sneak under the Crusher at the end of Level 3, before the 3rd "crush." It was impossible for the normal sprite to get through before 3 crushes. This is why you see in Challenger's TAS, he falls to the left side of the hole, waits for the 3rd "crush", and then jumps after it with perfect spacing to clip the ledge. But in a sword state, the Gate Thief Prince is able to get past the Crusher just before the 3rd crush comes down, so now there is definitely time to save, to beat the TAS. Unfortunately, coming down the right side of the hole means bad spacing after the jump, for a clumsy wall collision, but it is still a big net time saver, since you don't have to wait for the crusher. By turning back to the right before dropping into the hole, the Gate Thief is 4 frames slower than the TAS, which is 1 time unit slower. But he is 3 time units faster in the next two rooms: 12 frames saved in the crusher room, and another 2 frames saved in the gate room. This improvement of 10 frames (net) is enough to save 2 time units, meaning Gate Thief should be able to get a 653, compared to Challenger's 655. But recording it won't be easy! Let's see if I can do it! If I get it, you will see "M2J7TBB" password at the end of the video.
Posted: 1/29/2020 7:05 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
w00h00!! I've improved the Fat Gate Thief route for Level 18. I found a better tactic in the room with the 2nd guard (the room above the skeleton + 2 big bottles), and saved 8 frames, cutting the final time down to 861 time units, with "2:01" displayed on-screen. I've re-recorded Fat Gate Thief for Level 19, and recorded this better Level 18. I've also finally recorded the superior Gate Thief #2 Invincibility Route for Level 4, as well as the complementary Gate Thief #2 Non-Invincibility Route for Level 14. I haven't decided if I'm going to go back and redo Level 13 videos. I think the current videos are sufficient. But these 4 new videos are definitely necessary for my purposes in this thread, to document all of the levels for the major categories. Now, I just have to do Gate Thief #1 videos for Levels 3 & 18. I will go ahead and upload the 4 aforementioned videos tomorrow, and will update you soon, once the Gate Thief #1 videos are recorded, hopefully this week. Once those last 3 videos are ready (GT1, Level 3 Invincible, Level 3 Non-Invincible, and Level 18), I think I'm pretty much done demonstrating all of the important videos, as a rough outline for anyone who wants to put it all together for a Warp TAS, or a 20-Levels TAS. It's been a long 14 months! But we're almost done!
Posted: 2/1/2020 7:25 AM
(Edited: 2/4/2020 3:21 AM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Edit: deleted comments about Princess Bedroom scenes affecting game-clock. Princess scenes do not affect game-clock. See further comments on this point in the next post. Tonight, I have uploaded a number of videos, to round out the field, as promised. First, as has been a tradition over the past year, I'm including documentation of another Gate Thief #2 record, since he is the superior runner for Level 4. This route requires Invincibility Mode, and I believe is the fastest possible way to beat Level 4 under any circumstances, at 343 time units, or 48.42 seconds. Next, a new record for Gate Thief #1 on Level 18: an improvement of over half a second, which is welcome news as I prepare for my "all 20 levels" speedrun with Gate Thief #1. This one is completed in 863 time units, or 121.835 seconds. This is the last possible password for displaying "2:01" on-screen at the end of the level. The next password displays "2:02." And finally, two new videos for Fat Gate Thief, which is used for the Warp-16 "Sub-9 Minute" speedrun. For Level 18, FGT gets 860 time units, or 121.411 seconds. And for Level 19, an HD reshoot of the previous demonstration, which shows the new route, jumping through the top of a gate, and jumping straight through the final gate without hitting the button. Level 19 password translates to 532 time units, or 75.105 seconds. Still working on GT1 Level 3. Updates soon! Gate Thief #2 -- Level 4 -- Invincibility Mode -- "0:49." Link to video 343 time units = 48.42 seconds. Gate Thief #1 -- Level 18 -- "2:01." Link to video 863 time units = 121.835 seconds. Fat Gate Thief -- Level 18 -- "2:01." Link to video 860 time units = 121.411 seconds. Fat Gate Thief -- Level 19 -- "1:15." Link to video 532 time units = 75.105 seconds.
Posted: 2/3/2020 9:41 PM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I previously made a statement here regarding Princess Bedroom cut-scenes possibly having an impact on the game clock for the following level. But I have confirmed this is wrong. Princess cut-scenes do not affect game clock. I was confused because GT#1 and GT#2 both completed Level 14 (non-invincibility route) in exactly 1,771 frames (counting from first frame until the "select menu" is fully on-screen during End Music.) But GT#1 was 1.53 seconds faster according to the game clock. I have confirmed that by some hilarious miracle, GT#1 gained exactly 1.53 seconds of extra lag frames, offsetting the better performance, and causing a real-time tie. You can imagine that such a coincidence would not have been the first explanation I considered! The main source of lag is the End Door. For some reason, the door opens 20% slower for Gate Thief #1, collecting a net increase of 21 lag frames. He also collects 10 extra lag frames in the conveyor belt room, and 6 extra lag frames from the 1st guard. I created an alternate route for Gate Thief #1, which is slower, but is able to complete the final room faster by minimizing End Door Lag. In this other route, the Prince runs through the final gate (instead of jumping through), and does a u-turn, for a fast climb down. In the final room, the u-turn & climb is 6 "gameplay" frames slower, but the End Door rises 9 "real time" frames faster, so this alternate route creates a final room that is 3 frames faster in real time. Unfortunately, in order to run through the gate, you need a different approach in the previous room, which is 14 frames slower, so there is an over-all loss of 11 frames. Now that I have cleared up this mystery, I will go ahead and share GT#2 on Level 14, non-invincibility route. As I said, incredible that it is the exact same number of real-time frames as GT#1, despite being approximately 1.5 seconds slower on the game clock. I will upload that video tonight.
Posted: 2/4/2020 3:16 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Ok, so here's the Non-Invincibility Route for Gate Thief #2 on Level 14. "0:59" displayed on the game clock, at 416 time units, according to the password. As I said previously, despite being 1.5 seconds slower than Gate Thief #1, it is miraculously the exact same amount of real world time, both being completed in 1,771 frames from the beginning of the level until the "Select Menu" is fully visible on-screen. I realized today that my Level 6 and Level 7 records are outdated for GT1 and GT2, but I have to prioritize Level 3 first, and then clean up the old videos. Gate Thief #2 -- Level 14 -- Non-Invincibility -- "0:59" Link to video 416 time units = 58.72941 seconds.
Posted: 2/4/2020 7:36 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I found an alternate setup for Gate Thief #1 today. It's almost the same, just some slight variation in the number of climbs before exiting, etc. The point of interest is that it does not scramble the buttons, and does not create low time garbage on the best times table. For instance, the normal setup causes "0:14" to appear for level 19, which cannot be overwritten by your score, because we cannot beat level 19 that fast. This setup is exactly 5 seconds slower, but it does save 1.5 seconds for a human, because no scrambled buttons means you do not have to access the Select Menu to reset the buttons. So, overall, only 3.5 seconds slower than the normal setup. It seems like a nice trade-off to be able to see *ALL* of your scores at the end of the run, and by not having to dirty up the run with some fast menu surfing. I don't know if I'll use it for my next speedrun. We'll see.
Posted: 2/9/2020 5:25 PM
(Edited: 2/25/2020 7:25 AM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I have a new correction for the inner workings of the game. I would recommend from now on, that if it is possible, this game should be emulated and captured at 60 fps. (Youtube supports 60 fps.) I have been using slow motion capture at 120 fps to examine the animation process of the game, and it very conclusively runs at 60 fps, given the following: The Prince's standard animation process during a running & jumping sequence will alternate between 3, 4, and 5 frames (at 60 fps), depending upon which part is being animated. All Red Flashes (from Damage) run for 3 frames. Jaffar's White Strobes (including the death of the Ghost), and the Yellow Strobes of Big Bottle (and Jaffar's throne room command), typically run a 3 frames on, 3 frames off. But there can be some variations, such as 3 frames on, 2 frames off. Black Screen transition between rooms can fluctuate between 11 frames and 13. (at 60 fps). Sometimes it looks like an extra frame of black at 30 fps, but this seems to have more to do with the Prince's position and place within the sequence, rather than lag. Odongdong and Challenger have discussed early in this thread how jumping through a screen transition can be one frame slower, but I have my doubts on this. Perhaps the frame is made up later by different spacing as approaching the next obstacle. But I'm not sure. The End Door during "lag" opens every 5 frames, and is very smooth, unlike the 30 fps capture, which appears to be 2 frames, 3 frames, 2 frames, 3 frames, alternating. Conclusion: Running this game at 30 fps causes many inaccuracies with frame count, and real-time position appraisal. A great majority of things are happening on odd frames at 60 fps, which are being rounded to a different frame at 30 fps. One might say it doesn't matter, and 30 fps is good enough. And that may be a fair assessment. But I just wanted to make you all aware of the reality, in case you want to do something about it!
Posted: 2/19/2020 8:11 PM
(Edited: 2/19/2020 9:35 PM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
lol, I just found a new TAS route for level 6, which is about 3 seconds faster. It can be performed with normal Prince Sprite, no prior setups or glitches, and no kill button. It uses a simple warp inside level 6, warping forward to Boss Checkpoint. It does not enable Kill Button or Debug Mode. And it does not change the Prince's Sprite, or Health Count. So perhaps it could be considered a legal glitch in the original speedrun category. I have recorded a version with Kill Button, which is 10 seconds faster than TAS. With a slightly better setup, and TAS menu navigation, it could be 11-12 seconds faster. Then substituting TAS's standard Boss Fight for my Kill Button, perhaps still 4-5 seconds faster than current TAS record. I will upload my video later today. Depending on whether or not it is considered legal (since it does not unlock or manipulate anything), this could be a legitimate time saver for TAS, and definitely a time saver for humans, since it would avoid several guard fights, and already have a 3+ seconds time save built in. FYI, current TAS is 1:15.766 from first frame level 6 until first frame of select menu on-screen during end music. In my video, it's 1:05.727, and this includes time returning to main menu & continue. This "simple warp" inside level 6 is a 2-part process, which involves a buffer glitch, returning to main menu, and starting level 6 again. I think I will first show only part 2, which takes a total of 37.147 seconds in real world time. This is also the only time the game calculates for the password. It does not count black frames or lag, so the password at the end shows 31.906 seconds, smashing all previous password records! Unfortunately, the Warp causes the clock to be blank, so the time can only be deduced from the password itself.
Posted: 2/19/2020 8:45 PM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Here's the Warp Segment, which is the only part counted by the game clock. Official game clock time is 226 time units, as per the Password. This is 31.906 seconds. After I prepare a slightly better version of the buffer setup, I'll post a video of the full run. You do have to see the guard before you do the Warp, so I did a quick u-turn at the screen transition before coming back to warp. I don't think going the other way around would be faster (approaching guard from left side). It would certainly be slower without Kill Button, having to jump through, pull sword, and run away, etc. Level 6 - 37.147 seconds real time - "0:32" game clock. Link to video 226 time units = 31.906 seconds.
Posted: 2/20/2020 3:52 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
oh boy! Got the big one today! I finally found a reliable, and easily repeatable setup for the "Inverted Intro," which I partially documented with fabricated pictures last year. It started when I saw this: I realized I had what I needed to repeat the Inverted Intro, with the simple change of making sure Jaffar is dead. That would reset to the Logo, instead of just resetting to Main Menu. So I repeated the non-sense I'd been doing, and it worked like a charm!! I did it a few more times to make sure, and then recorded this video. I've cut the full setup off for now, so everyone can have a quick, convenient video of just the "Inverted Intro." I'll upload the full setup shortly afterward, so everyone can do it themselves and impress their friends! Link to video
Posted: 2/20/2020 4:30 AM
Quote
Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
And here's the full setup. Y'all have fun repeating this and impressing your friends! lol. Now that I've been able to enjoy multiple viewings, I noticed something funny. The top half of the tree in the garden is actually in the foreground layer, so when the guards carry the prince away, their legs all disappear behind the tree, while their bodies are still visible in front of the tree. Very silly! Link to video Setup starts with a horizontal exit glitch at the spot where the panel has fallen on the button that opens the final gate. Then a level one quick hole jump to warp to level 8. Then a debug jump to level 20 to kill Jaffar. Then a debug jump to level 18, and a quad-up vertical exit glitch into the rubble in the 3rd room. This setup + dead jaffar causes a full game inversion and a logo reset. The Demo is not inverted, and the Intro will not be inverted on the second time through. At the end of the video, I showed the button scramble and best times garbage. I hope you all have fun repeating this trick, and impressing your friends!
Posted: 2/21/2020 7:25 AM
(Edited: 2/25/2020 7:29 AM)
Quote
Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
After much procrastinating, here's the Non-Invincibility Route for Gate Thief #1, Level 3. I suppose I will do the Invincibility Route next, followed by updated Levels 6 and 7, and possibly 13. After that, I may be ready to start work on an "All 20 Levels" speedrun for Gate Thief #1. For this video, the Route is basically identical to the TAS route, except the Gate Thief can just sneak past the crusher before its 3rd cycle. The TAS has to wait until after the crusher has come down for the 3rd time. Also, in the final hallway, Gate Thief can do a triple jump, since he can fit under the semi-open gate better. This password is 5 time units better than TAS, but due to extra lag, only about 0.14 seconds faster in real world time, or roughly 8.5 frames (at 60 fps). Slightly different frame rates account for the difference in time not being exactly divisible by 1 frame. Essentially, the difference here is that you can see the Select Menu in my video is partially transparent for 1 frame, which means it has not been on-screen as long as the Select Menu at the same point in the TAS. In other words, my frame capture ended sooner than TAS's frame capture for that frame. Taking that into account, you could say my performance was exactly 8 frames faster (at 60fps). I sure wish there was a way for us to start capturing videos (speedrunners and TAS'ers) at the exact constant frame rate of the system. Records indicate that the original SNES ran the same as the original NES, at 60.0988 fps; I have confirmed that the newer SNS-101 ("SNES 2", ca. 1997) also runs at 60.0988 fps. Gate Thief #1 -- Level 3 -- Non-Invincibility -- "1:32" Link to video 650 time units = 1:31.7647 on the game clock.
Posted: 2/23/2020 6:54 AM
Quote
Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Using the ol' double-turn trick at the last gate on Level 11 saves a whole second for Gate Thief #1. It also changed the fire pattern up, which allowed me to get the triple jump at the end. Level 11 down to 395 time units, "0:56." I'll be adding Level 11 to my list of reshoots now, along with levels 6 and 7, and possibly 13. Other than that, I think just about everything is optimized now. FYI, I've organized the front page of my youtube channel with updated playlists to sort my various Prince of Persia videos. There's a whole section devoted to Gate Thief #1, and I'll be continuously updating that list to include only the most recent versions of each level, whenever I do reshoots. I think that may be the most convenient way of keeping up, instead of sifting through all the pages of this forum discussion.
Posted: 2/25/2020 3:29 AM
(Edited: 3/11/2020 9:16 PM)
Quote
Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Here's the updated route for Gate Thief #1, Level 11. This actually produces a very cool Fire Pattern sometimes. I had to wait for the first Fire Wall. With perfect timing to pass it, I can get crazy close to the last two Fire Walls, and pass them at the first possible frame after each one disappears. Very Scary!!! I don't know if I will try this during a full speedrun. lol. But anyway, it was so perfect this time when I recorded it, that I beat the new 395 time mentioned yesterday. I got 394 this time. (note: for my actual speedrun attemps, I will take the more conservative 2-jump approach through the fire rooms, because the RNG is too unpredictable during a long run. A consistent "perfect" attempt with the slower approach should be projected at 55 frames slower at 60 fps, including lag from the "110 minute" clock reminder that will pop up during this level on an "all 20 levels" GT#1 speedrun.) Gate Thief #1 -- Level 11 -- "0:56" Link to video 394 time units = 55.62 seconds, with "0:56" displayed. Gate Thief #2 still narrowly holds the record on this level with 391 time units, and "0:55" displayed.
Posted: 2/25/2020 7:57 AM
Quote
Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Tonight, I also recorded better 60 fps videos for the two setups for Gate Thief #1. As mentioned in a previous post, I discovered a very slightly different setup that is slower, but does not scramble the input buttons, nor does it put low time garbage on the best times table. As you will be able to see by comparing the two setups, the original setup is about 1 second faster. The downside is the low time garbage of "0:14" for level 19, which will remain after the game is beaten. And for a human, time must be taken to quickly navigate the Select Menu to reset the scrambled input buttons. Now that I have optimized both setups, and can see that the new slower setup is only about 1 second slower, I think this is a fair trade off, and I might use it for my speedruns, just so I can have that nice complete Best Times board at the end. Since TAS can navigate Select Menu extremely quickly to reset scrambled input buttons, the difference would probably be about 2 seconds, instead of 1, if TAS performed both of these setups. Gate Thief #1 -- Original Setup -- 89.0866167 seconds. Link to video Gate Thief #1 -- Alternate Setup -- 90.1515296 seconds. Link to video
Posted: 2/27/2020 7:56 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Today I did the Invincibility Route for Gate Thief #1 on Level 3. I made 2 videos this time. The first one is the standard 720p 30fps format, with Debug Menu used to simulate Invincibility Mode. This added 0.5 seconds to the real-world time. The second video was shot at 1080p 60fps, and used real Invincibility Mode, so that Debug Menu did not need to be accessed. This gives a more accurate real-world time for the route. Both runs were completed with 641 time units on the game clock, which displays "1:30" on-screen. Unfortunately, when Invincibility Mode is active, it seems to cause extra lag in the first pass of the Skeleton Room. To be clear, under all circumstances, any Gate Thief #1 will pick up some lag in that room. But in this particular instance, there were 5 extra lag frames (at 60 fps), which is an extra 0.0832 seconds in addition to the usual amount of lag. Gate Thief #1 - Level 3 - Invincibility Route - "1:30" Link to video 641 time units = 90.49412 seconds on the game clock. Gate Thief #1 - Level 3 - Real Invincibility Mode - 60 fps. Link to video 641 time units = 90.49412 seconds on the game clock.
Posted: 3/2/2020 4:47 AM
(Edited: 3/2/2020 7:54 AM)
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
I've been doing a lot of homework. I finally went back and touched up some of the records, and got official console frame count for a full run setup. The new speedrun route I'm working on uses the Gate Thief #1 setup, followed by completing every level. After compiling all of the segments, and crunching a bunch of numbers, I have an unofficial projected total of 84,066 console frames. The SNES runs at 60.09881389744 fps, so that's 23:18.79632 in real world time. On the game clock for levels 1-19, 8101 time units = 19:03.670588. This means with a perfect run, you would see password MXWRF6G on screen when level 19 is completed. Afterwards, you would see "100:57" time remaining on the Select Menu when you pause the game during the End Music at end of level 20. Mid-game checks for perfect timing: "115 remaining" while climbing to 3rd level in 3rd room of Level 6. "110 remaining" while climbing down to 2nd level towards button to open last gate, level 11. (3 rooms before fire.) "105 remaining" when finishing climb into room to the left of the room above the guard near the potion of warp. (3 rooms before warp potion.) I'm glad to see the time is all the way down at 23:18.79. This means I have 11 seconds of mistakes to make, and still break 23:30. I suspect a good TAS might be closer to 23:15. I'll be uploading new updated videos of levels 6, 7, and 13 tonight, and that will almost complete documentation of all segments that are includes in this calculation. I think I'm going to do Level 2 again, to demonstrate a perfect run that includes the 3.66 seconds of lag, due to immediately following the GT1 setup. I also need to redo level 20 in high quality, and show the better time. After that, everything should be done, and ready for a full speedrun! Here's a partial breakdown of the numbers: real clock -- 01-05 = 06:21.6381474540 = 22,936 frames. (including setup.) 06-10 = 05:34.4325564213 = 20,099 frames. 11-15 = 05:22.4689261396 = 19,380 frames. 16-19 = 05:32.1363380603 = 19,961 frames. lvl' 20 = 00:28.1203552517 = 01,690 frames. 01-20 = 23:18.7963247238 = 84,066 frames.
Posted: 3/2/2020 5:55 AM
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Akuma
Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 274
Here are the updated videos for Gate Thief #1 on Levels 6, 7, and 13. Below each video, I've included the real world time, along with an official console frame count starting with the first frame inside the level, until the frame that the Select Menu becomes visible onscreen at the end of the level. Gate Thief #1 - Level 6 - "0:45" Link to video 315 time units. 2738 console frames = 45.558303441 seconds. Gate Thief #1 - Level 7 - "0:50" Link to video 355 time units. 3059 console frames = 50.899507022 seconds. Gate Thief #1 - Level 13 - "1:38" - Non-Invincibility Link to video 696 time units. 5997 console frames = 99.7856631619 seconds.
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