This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6376: Taechuk's DS Meteos "Multi Star Trip, best ending" in 06:50.39

Meteos was my favourite game as a kid (before I found Stepmania), and I loved grinding out really high scores in Deluge mode. I also remember how much of an RNG hell it was to do anything fast in the mission modes - this is so much hilariously faster than an unassisted run, well done. Yes vote! I'd love to see a category that takes on Deluge mode, since that's where the real challenge is, but I'm not sure what the category would be - max score, 32 planets sounds intense. 'fastest max score' might be more swallowable, and entertaining enough for moons.

As for the credits sequence I think honestly it'd be nice to actually have extended input for publication just for screwing around and adding something more instead of just watching the credits roll.

As for the credits sequence I think honestly it'd be nice to actually have extended input for publication just for screwing around and adding something more instead of just watching the credits roll.

Do you want me to TAS the whole thing and post the file here afterward? Like, yeah I understand it could be a bit interesting to see actual TAS superplay since the whole run is just sending garbage to every planet as fast as possible and not ultra long combo (plus the Metamo Ark's playfield is super high, making a lot of possibilities). If it helps with the submission I can do it. Would I then need to cancel this submission and make another one after or will you be able to just change the file here?

I'd definitely love to see a credits roll superplay, since it would allow for different possibilities to the main game. You don't have to cancel, just post the new input file in this topic so an editor can make use of it.

Plus it would be used as an additional file not a file to replace the submission.

I'd love to see a category that takes on Deluge mode, since that's where the real challenge is, but I'm not sure what the category would be - max score, 32 planets sounds intense. 'fastest max score' might be more swallowable, and entertaining enough for moons.

Maxing every planet is clearly the "correct" category (perhaps also including unlocking every planet along the way, rather than using SRAM? That'd add interest from managing the rare metals). I'd be entertained, at least; the way you reach a maximum score for the planet can vary somewhat from planet to planet (the exception would be if there are any planets which require a very slow strategy – Hevendor is an obvious possibility for that due to its excessively simple mechanics – but more commonly you're scoring so fast that the score counter can't keep up). I'm also curious as to whether there are any planets where maxing out the score counter is impossible; if so, then trying to score as much as possible could be a very difficult optimisation problem. The resulting run might end up in Vault, but I wouldn't care; it's an obvious 100% definition, so it'd be acceptable, and seeing the strategies would be valuable. Deluge is likely to be more interesting than Star Trip for someone who knows the game, because Star Trip is dominated by RNG about how badly the AI decides to screw up. When you're playing the game as a human, it's basically about trying to survive until the AI doesn't, which you don't have much control over (when the AI dies, it's typically for some silly/pointless reason rather than because you filled their screen, something which the AI can often survive!).

My thoughts are exactly the same as Ais's - this TAS entertains me because of the luck manipulation required to kill CPUs so fast, but to a non player it's not obvious how unusual this is, but a deluge superplay is obviously super human to any possible watcher. I think that it is not possible for a planet to not be maxable in deluge (the way the game is set up, you only lose when a column fills and has no dust in it, and a full column with no dust ALWAYS has a match you can make to form dust) but I am happy to be proven wrong.

It depends on what the timer is like for loss with a full column. It seems plausible that after a sufficiently long time has passed, you wouldn't be able to form the match in a column quickly enough after it unburns (especially if this is happening in multiple columns at once); it's got to take at least three frames to move a meteo (tap old location, tap new location, release), and you have to move two meteos in the worst case, so that's six frames per column. Now do that somewhere like Hevendor, which has a large number of columns and doesn't let you make any hovering-meteo barriers to make it safe to not bother with a column for a while; you'd have to continuously rotate through the columns, making sure that no two columns ever unburned at once (or that if they did, you could manipulate a horizontal match involving them), as I'm pretty sure the late-game death timer is too short to make matches separately in every column. If it's possible to max out the score counter on Hevendor, it'll almost certainly take a lot of luck manipulation to do so.

it's got to take at least three frames to move a meteo (tap old location, tap new location, release)

if you need to move a meteo for more than one space, you need to hold the new location for more time, one frame by space also sorry for the inactivity, i have got a lot of work to do recently, i do have a credits tas done, but i really don't think it is interesting enough and i don't know what exactly to do to maximise entertainment.

also sorry for the inactivity, i have got a lot of work to do recently, i do have a credits tas done, but i really don't think it is interesting enough and i don't know what exactly to do to maximise entertainment.

Things to try: * very fast screen clears * keeping a screen full of meteos around for a long time with staggered matches * making a lot of matches very fast * staggering matches to only barely clear a screen * lots of fast vertical matches * having a lot of separate stacks in the air simultaneously, then breaking them up or letting them merge * arranging the colours of meteos into artistic patterns

alright, sorry for the wait i've got something, and i wonder if it is ok or if i need to make it better Link to video file

A lot of setup for a hilarious ending you'll never see outside of TAS! I enjoyed that.

feos, unless the author's intentions changed. The extended input was not meant to replace the submission file. Much like similar TASes that have extended input as a second file that haven't been replaced. Taechuk can obviously speak about their intentions of that input but that's where it stood last as a file that doesn't replace.

Extended input that's not present in the published movie but only in the encode is only allowed if this input is trivial for a publisher to execute. Since in this case it's not trivial, and also it increases the overall entertainment, having it in the primary movie makes the most sense to me. Arcade Tetris also has this. That said, of course I'd prefer to know the author's preference!

I'm also curious as to whether there are any planets where maxing out the score counter is impossible; if so, then trying to score as much as possible could be a very difficult optimisation problem. The resulting run might end up in Vault, but I wouldn't care; it's an obvious 100% definition, so it'd be acceptable, and seeing the strategies would be valuable.

That's not how full completion rules work. If it's impossible to clearly complete "all X" things, there's no fullness in it. Also what is maximum score for a given planet anyway? Is it some known hard-coded amount which you can't overflow, or just a digital cap like 999999 (regardless of allowing or disallowing the overflow).

I reviewed the endings. While True Meteo seems to be the best ending and the logical goal of the game, I'm not sure we want to declare it equal to full completion, mostly because there's so much you can do in this game aside from getting this one ending. The amount of modes available from the start is also stunning. Technically we allow each mode to be published separately, but I don't particularly like the idea of having 20 branches for Meteos, per mode and per ending (whatever the actual number would be). Simple Mode looks questionable as a speedrun achievement due to how easy it can be configured to be. Timed Time Wars make no sense to speedrun. Meteo Wars sound too similar to what Star Trip already contains. Deluge Mode sounds good as one where you play until it's impossible to advance (or until it stops changing). Am I missing other playable modes? If not, then it'd be either 3 possible branches for Star Trip, and a branch for Deluge. Start Trip branches could be done in one movie. As for actual full completion definition, I have no ideas honestly, and I'd prefer to leave this for future, whenever someone decides to make such a run.

The amount of modes available from the start is also stunning. Technically we allow each mode to be published separately, but I don't particularly like the idea of having 20 branches for Meteos, per mode and per ending (whatever the actual number would be).

Simple mode is just some CPU battles with the ability to change some rules and planets. It is clearly uneligible for a branch. Deluge is a stamina mode, where the game ends when you fail. A "max out" (9 999 999) is theorically possible on every planet, but I feel like only one branch would be acceptable : "fastest max out". However we would need a verification movie for the unlocked planet if it is not a starter planet. Star Trip has 3 different modes, Straight, Branch and Multi. Straight is a series of 1v1 battles versus random planets with the exception of the player's planet. RNG manipulation would be important in this mode since every planet could be fought. It can be its own branch. Branch is like Straight but planets are pre-determined with their position, so some route can be faster than another one. It can also have it's own branch for fastest completion, regardless of the ending. Multi is a bit special in my opinion. Reaching the The Ascent ending (the true ending) unlocks Layazero so it is a special ending, the other endings not unlocking it. Furthermire, to reach True Meteo, you have to fight an additionnal fight compared to the other two endings, so if we have a single "fastest completion" branch of the Multi route, this movie is suboptimal for reaching the true ending. So for Multi we can have 2 branches : "Any Route" and "True Ending". And for Time War, there are 4 different modes, a 2-minute score attack, a 5-minute score attack, a 100 meteo sprint and a 1000 meteo sprint. Since they are all on different planets, maybe a TAS that clears all 4 with the highest score/fastest IGT could be accepted, but I'm not completely sure.

Extended input that's not present in the published movie but only in the encode is only allowed if this input is trivial for a publisher to execute. Since in this case it's not trivial, and also it increases the overall entertainment, having it in the primary movie makes the most sense to me. Arcade Tetris also has this.

Yeah that's fair, since it's not just an additional input to clear text boxes but a complete superplay. It's ok to have the movie file replaced by the one with the superplay.

Anyway, we only have a Best ending movie class

Well it is pretty much the best ending and having an unlockable linked to it specially (even if not unique) seems good enough for me.

I don't understand why it is suboptimal though.

Because you have to play an additionnal fight, which easily adds 20 seconds at a minimum.

That's just inherent to the goal, it doesn't mean it's sloppy (unless it's actually played sloppily).

My argument was that if there was only a "fastest completion" on Multi, getting the true ending is suboptimal since it gets an additionnal fight. Of course, if we have both a "fastest completion" and "best ending", that problem is gone.

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [3968] DS Meteos "Multi Star Trip, best ending" by Taechuk in 06:50.39

Nice work! Finally Meteos has a TASVideos TAS.

That was awesome. Don't forget the next installment; Meteos: Disney Magic.