This topic is for the purpose of discussing #376: -ziplock-'s NES Metroid in 21:50.97

My apologies for the double submission - I locked up during sending and got an error message. I hit back and "save" again only to realized it had doubled up.

I am not as solid at timing jumps as Arc

This is unfortunate. It only calls for someone to beat this movie... The rest sounds great though.

My apologies for the double submission - I locked up during sending and got an error message.

It does that sometimes, and I have no idea what causes it... It's something nasty that phpBB does when using parts of it as a part of another site.

Very nice work indeed. I enjoyed every bit of it probably. I think there are some minor things that could be done faster, but we are talking about frames here perhaps so it's just rediculous. :) Cheers mate. This is quality entertainment!

I liked it, but I have questions. [1] Why continually open the door in Ridley's room? Everytime it closed, it produced lag. [2] Why not use UP+A? It would save you minutes. I like finishing with zero missles in this version better than with only one energy in your earlier work. The beeping sound drives me crazy.

Great movie! It gets my vote.

Anything with "Metroid"?... :P

Cool run! As with the first version, your handling of metroids in tourian is just superb. In other areas you're movements are good, no bigger mistakes spotted. A great idea for doing a run for though. I'm really hoping for competition as Bisqwit mentioned earlier. Then we'd see vids with even cooler stunts and hotter chicks... oh wait. Anyway, nice work. Definite Yes-vote for it's extremely high entertainment-value and overall good moves. In some places however, you jump and must turn back a bit to avoid hitting an enemy. Couldn't this be manipulated so that you could just jump straight without turns? About feitclubs first question; -ziplock- said he didn't use any luck management there, which would have been my first guess. I'm just going to assume he did it because he can. Just like he shoot the ceiling in one corridor, or did that too have some other purpose? And about the second, I personally think using death as shortcut isn't good. Main enterntainment value comes from playing perfect as well as fast and I don't see dying being part of that.

This is unfortunate. It only calls for someone to beat this movie...

There's certainly room for improvement - I'm just happy I pulled it off. If anything, I think this should give some ideas for potentially faster speed runs. I already have a couple of my own.

I think there are some minor things that could be done faster, but we are talking about frames here perhaps so it's just rediculous.

I think that it could be done about 10,000 frames faster. About 90% of the jumps are imprecise. Some jumps are unnecessary. 20% speed is way too fast for a Metroid timeattack. The movie is plagued by various problems that are already solved in either Zoizite's or my movie. For example, boss fighting. You ought to kill Kraid much faster, without missiles. Ridley ought to take about 10 seconds; I've made a video (TechSmith Codec) for you here: Fighting Ridley While it needs to be played better, the creativity and planning of the movie is excellent.

Why not use UP+A? It would save you minutes.

From The Legend of Zelda description:

The Up+A trick (save and restart) was used in this movie several times. It was judged to be acceptable because it's mentioned in the instruction booklet of the game, and is a part of normal playing.

Is it mentioned in the Metroid instruction manual? No Is it a 'part of normal playing'? I don't know exactly what Bisqwit means by this, but speedrunners haven't used it and Metroid movies are more entertaining without it.

I will probably accept this movie anyway, because people think it is entertaining. Edit: +probably

Planning X Playing quality = Overall entertainment Both are important, and if either one is poor (which in the case would be the playing quality), the entertainment value suffers a lot. These movies are supposed to look perfect, and this one was too inaccurate for me to find it entertaining.

I agree to reject this movie. I've never played NES Metroid and as soon as he got to the Ridley fight, the first thing I thought was, "I bet you can get behind Ridley or something, this fight is terrible." That is a gross oversight if a newb to the game can think of a strategy that a (supposed) old hat can't. Remake it.

A great idea for doing a run for though. I'm really hoping for competition as Bisqwit mentioned earlier.

Agreed - I had some serious problems with Ridley and couldn't figure out how Arc pulled off the Kraid speed.

I am not as solid at timing jumps as Arc

As well as other things. I would love to see this run completed with a sub 15 minute time or something. I just wanted to open the door to something (and remember - Red Scarlet opened the door to the "two-item" run). I can't wait for someone to pull it off 10 times faster. Gonna be sweet when they take out Ridley in 10 seconds and get flawless jumps through the climb to Tourain. Another thing that some people might not have noticed is that the run through Tourain is extremely flawed with frequent stops and non-stop back-tracking. This is the first time anyone's attempted fighting off the metroids without the default hand cannon and while it looks impressive because it hasn't been seen before, it's flawed as hell. Through the three runs I attempted, I did much better battles with the metroids, but this is what I ended up with. I've been playing metroid since its inception, but this is indeed my first time-attack and there are issues.

While it needs to be played better, the creativity and planning of the movie is excellent.

I urge you speed demons to just take this to a new level. Just a starting point here. But when you do, I think most people agree - don't use UP+A :)

I am not as solid at timing jumps as Arc That's what slow motion and save states are for. If you know how it's done (and there's no reason why you shouldn't), you should be able to pull it off.

Really nice way to fight Ridley you made there Arc! Can't wait to see the next version of this run. Cheers.

Well, Arc's video is reason enough for me to vote "no." I still think UP+A is cooler than running backwards through Ridley's Lair and Norfair and Brinstar to get to Kraid, but I may be alone in that belief.

Well.. I think we all have seen the back tracking alot latley. Enough to get bored by it. I can't really make up my own mind if I wanna see the Up+A or if I wanna see the whole back track. I think since this is a "new" genre in this game, 1-item-run. I think it would be more fair to use the back tracking. How ever, if you're lazy some day you'd rather see people use the quickest possible alternative, which in this case would be Up+A. Perhaps you guys should put up two diffrent runs on this?

I think Up+A should be used. Remember that this won't be any kind of official record so you don't have to follow the same rules as most speed runners. Just do whatever is most entertaining, and I don't find watching someone going through the same area over and over entertaining.

Well, the issue there is when you defeat Ridley and UP+A, you begin at the start of Ridley's Lair. Then you need to go up the elevator until the music changes then UP+A again. Then, from the beginning of Norfair, go up the elevator and UP+A again. While it saves time...maybe a bit annoying?

Well, the issue there is when you defeat Ridley and UP+A, you begin at the start of Ridley's Lair. Then you need to go up the elevator until the music changes then UP+A again. Then, from the beginning of Norfair, go up the elevator and UP+A again. While it saves time...maybe a bit annoying?

More important is improving the Ridley battle (and maybe Kraid, if possible). the UP+A debate can rage on in the meantime.

I mainly am against up+A to keep perspective with the other runs. I mean if the "fast as possible" run doesn't use it in an attempt to be as fast as possible, why should this? Plus the manual argument.

I've never understood the manual argument. Most glitches aren't mentioned in the manual...

The manual and banned glitch thing both stem from Twin Galaxies rules, which declare that developer-intentional tactics must be found in the manual to be legal, and glitches that directly impair the "spirit of the game" are likewise illegal. I don't think either restriction should apply here. So the rule is whether or not abusing a tactic or glitch is entertaining.