In fact, I went ahead an out of curiosity tried it, and TASed a bit of the beginning of the game with dolphin, and it seemed to work fine. (I got one desync at one point, but it went away when I redid that part. I don't know why it desynced there.)
Replicating that run in that video, however, would be quite a big endeavour, because it's so highly polished and uses many techniques I have no idea how they work...
I wonder that if I made a TAS of the Wii VC version of the game that's not optimal but still beats the real-time record, if it would be accepted. After all, one of the requirements for publication is that it must break all existing records (it would, since no better run has been officially published here or in the real-time community), but it's highly unclear to me that if there are known improvements whether that would constitute grounds for rejection.
Assuming nobody else would be willing to make an any% TAS of the Wii VC version (which at this point appears to be the case), we would be in a strange situation where the fastest completion time that anybody has made would be rejected, but nobody would be willing to make a better one.
Joined: 4/17/2010
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Warp wrote:
I wonder that if I made a TAS of the Wii VC version of the game that's not optimal but still beats the real-time record, if it would be accepted. After all, one of the requirements for publication is that it must break all existing records (it would, since no better run has been officially published here or in the real-time community), but it's highly unclear to me that if there are known improvements whether that would constitute grounds for rejection.
Assuming nobody else would be willing to make an any% TAS of the Wii VC version (which at this point appears to be the case), we would be in a strange situation where the fastest completion time that anybody has made would be rejected, but nobody would be willing to make a better one.
For Vault, there's an interesting rule that allows to accept movies that aren't too optimized if they beat some optimized Vault record due to a new discovery.
Wiki: Vault wrote:
In rare cases, there will be a sloppier movie that is faster than a more optimized movie due to the use of a major skip discovery. In this case, the faster of the two movies is preferred.
But in this case, we're not talking about an existing record published in Vault and beaten by a sloppier movie. We're talking about a game that generally goes to Moons. And it'd be a new independent entry for Wii, without obsoleting any current N64 TASes.
So if your movie is obviously sloppy, which means, it's easily improvable in a lot of places, it'd be rejected. But by all means such a movie would be nice to have as a test run for future work!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Is it even possible to ISG in collapse tower room? One thing I've realised about the current GIM TAS is that it would be faster to manipulate a fairy during the Ghoma fight rather than going back to the Lost Woods to get the bugs for the blue warp trick.
So if your movie is obviously sloppy, which means, it's easily improvable in a lot of places, it'd be rejected.
So we have a rather curious situation where a TAS that breaks all records would be rejected, even though there is no better TAS, nor anybody willing to make a better one (at least as of writing this).
Of course the difficult question is what level of optimization will be deemed enough for publication.
But by all means such a movie would be nice to have as a test run for future work!
I probably would, but given the enormous amount of work required (even if I'd just mostly replicate the unassisted route and tricks, making a moderately faster version of it), and the very high likelihood that it would just be rejected, it's not very motivating.
Joined: 4/17/2010
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Yes, the problem here is that we don't have an existing publication such a movie would be beating. If we did, it'd have high chances, but again, that's only a rule for Vault movies.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 2/28/2012
Posts: 160
Location: Philadelphia
Mitjitsu wrote:
Is it even possible to ISG in collapse tower room? One thing I've realised about the current GIM TAS is that it would be faster to manipulate a fairy during the Ghoma fight rather than going back to the Lost Woods to get the bugs for the blue warp trick.
You can get C-up (Navi text) ISG off any locked/barred doors, and I think there's one in tower collapse room.
Why not make the same TAS using Dolphin and the Wii VC version of the game?
The GIM route is boring and so nobody wanted to do it. If you do, go for it.
Mitjitsu wrote:
One thing I've realised about the current GIM TAS is that it would be faster to manipulate a fairy during the Ghoma fight rather than going back to the Lost Woods to get the bugs for the blue warp trick.
That only works if you have chus. Only the babies drop fairies. Which means you can't reload the room, which means you need explosives to get through the stone slab.
Mitjitsu wrote:
Found this video showing the theorised route and it's a lot slower compared to the current WR
It's a quick test against a run that has been optimised for years. Plus RTA is bad. ;)
We'll see.
Enterim wrote:
Mitjitsu wrote:
Is it even possible to ISG in collapse tower room? One thing I've realised about the current GIM TAS is that it would be faster to manipulate a fairy during the Ghoma fight rather than going back to the Lost Woods to get the bugs for the blue warp trick.
You can get C-up (Navi text) ISG off any locked/barred doors, and I think there's one in tower collapse room.
There isn't. But on the plus side ISG is not needed.
Are the baby ghoma's still around after you defeat Queen Ghoma? If that's the case, is it possible to use the baby ghomas to clip through the stone door?
I don't think so. Even if they do, as far as I know you need a chu or the slingshot to get Goma off the ceiling as long as the babies are still alive.
Edit: I mean the slingshot could be faster than getting bugs. You could test if the babies survive.
I dunno, lets say we disregard any emulation-error glitches like GIM that will not be possible on n64 without locking the game. Is there a faster way of beating the game than what Grunz did in the run currently published?
I remember, that we were considering the bombchu route some time ago and it was definitely not much slower than the GIM route. The thing is, that I can't remember what type of GIM strategy was used back then. It might have been that very old strategy using the deku nut drop from one of the Gohma Babies, which is of course a lot slower than what we do nowadays.
However, that new collapse skip trick saves probably more than a minute, so I'm actually quite certain that the bombchu route is faster now. Apart from that, it is a legit N64 route, that basically skips all cutscenes of the old run and is alltogether simply fucking awesome. Someone should really go for that route, I'd love to see this.
About route planning: Where exactly would we use our chus?
I don't think chu route is done quite yet, since it's not clear if you'd get the shield from botw or buy it in the shop before going to the deku tree.
At the moment it's a bit slow since half the people are at ESA, but maybe come by the discord sometime (link in PM). :)
For a time we were trying to make GIMing a bottle in botw fast (you can fix it for N64 with a magic bean), but there is always some bullshit that prevents it from working. For example, we can get Blank A with a sword, but then we can't use it, so no JS clip.
low% maybe? Although the ocarina would probably be a problem there...
I mean for most categories that is the slowest exit and you need a weapon anyway. If you could get itemless through the zora river exit I could see it. Never going to the shop seems like it would be a time save. But there are no small rocks in the lost woods and you can't pick up bushes without at strength upgrade, so...
