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Posted: 10/25/2005 4:04 AM
Post subject: Do you prfer seeing runs going for Speed or Enertertainment?
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Heist9k
Joined: 4/19/2005
Posts: 31
If you had to pick one or the other... Some games it's very entertaining just to blaze through, but I feel like a lot of movies could be more fun to watch if they were just about being entertaining rather than getting to the end quickest (especially if the character moves slowly or in a repetitive fashion). Of course, bragging rights are most valuable for the fastest finish, but I say given the choice, it's entertainment everytime (which speed isnt always a contributor to)
Posted: 10/25/2005 4:36 AM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
I prefer speed, because speed begets entertainment, usually. There are a few exceptions, though, when speed cuts out the defining moments in a game.
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Posted: 10/25/2005 5:11 AM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
Entertainment definitely. I'd rather see a run filled to the brim with glitches rather than a speed run if given the choice.
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Posted: 10/25/2005 6:28 AM
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nifboy
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
Entertainment, although speed can be entertaining in and of itself.
Posted: 10/25/2005 8:22 AM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Mostly speed.
Posted: 10/25/2005 2:37 PM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
Both, but more entertainment. Having the character look cool while killing things or grabbing items is the top priority. Killing things quickly can often be very cool, but tends to become repetitive and boring if speed is the priority.
Posted: 10/25/2005 4:44 PM
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supermegavkoy
Joined: 4/30/2005
Posts: 199
SPEED!
Posted: 10/26/2005 8:31 PM
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Cazlab
Joined: 7/5/2004
Posts: 551
Location: Karlstad, Sweden
entertainment is the shit!
Posted: 10/26/2005 9:02 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I'd go for speed, mainly, there are however some games that are quite suited for entertainment runs. Just look at MoriMotos gradius movie for example, or the "Crazy Baka" movie for SMB. In a game where you can show of many bugs and amazing tricks, entertainment runs can be really, uh, entertaining. The thing is that these movies are hard to judge whether they should be published or not since their goals are a little vague. Movies which goal is 100% kills or stuff like that can be very interesting too, if they aim for speed as well.
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Posted: 10/26/2005 9:03 PM
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Phil
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
both
Posted: 10/26/2005 9:10 PM
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NrgSpoon
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646
I think it's agreed that it's very game dependant. For example, going for speed in Starfox 64 would be nowhere near as interesting as going for score, since it would just be holding down turbo, picking the best route, and beating the bosses quickly.
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Posted: 10/26/2005 9:42 PM
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Radz
Joined: 12/14/2004
Posts: 261
Location: Mars
Speed makes the game entertainment to watch. For Example Phil & Genisto's SMB Runs. Speedy & entertaining.
Radz.
Posted: 10/27/2005 3:15 AM
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1652)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
I think you can mix the two. For example, someone is working on a super ghouls and ghosts run. I think the run would be highly more entertaining, but perhaps slightly slower, if they only killed the necessary enemies. Slowing down slightly to reach other goals may be actually more entertaining, much like the Street Fighter Videos.
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Posted: 11/2/2005 2:00 AM
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Yumiko
Joined: 10/29/2005
Posts: 31
If I'm watching a video of a game that I'm not very familiar with, then I'd prefer to be able to have time to read the dialog. But in speedruns they dismiss the dialog as soon as it comes up.
Posted: 11/2/2005 5:50 PM
Post subject: re:
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alexpenev
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 104
Entertainment. I can't tell the difference between a 43:11.07 and a 43:10.07. But if that 1 extra second is used to pull off some fancy trick, the movie will be more memorable.
Posted: 11/6/2005 10:44 PM
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cheeseman
Joined: 11/2/2005
Posts: 198
Entertainment
A life without cheese is a life without life.
Posted: 11/6/2005 10:45 PM
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cheeseman
Joined: 11/2/2005
Posts: 198
"entertainment is the shit!" Chill out your gonna get us modded
A life without cheese is a life without life.
Posted: 11/6/2005 10:58 PM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
1. Why did you post twice? There is an "edit" button. 2. Why did you use quotation marks instead of the "quote" feature? 3. Why are you acting in such a way that you are unfamiliar with the rules and how they are applied? Did you not read the rules before registering?
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Posted: 11/9/2005 2:49 AM
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Spriteless
Joined: 8/7/2004
Posts: 51
I believe we are allowed to cuss, as we aren't explicitly told not to. Besides, the mods participate in most conversations, they're nothing to worry about. Calm down, mega-boy! I like entertainment, but speed is a big factor in entertainment. Keeps the pace up. Shows the care to search the game deeply. Searching for speed means finding even the smallest glitch to eke the most efficiency from movements; makes the movie graceful. But the Gradius runs and Mario speedwalk are great even though they scroll at a set speed because they also have this care. Purespeed is a good way to train for the patience to find good bugs, I suppose.
mew.
Posted: 11/9/2005 4:05 AM
(Edited: 11/9/2005 3:51 PM)
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
The best games to make runs of are the ones where speed and entertainment aren't mutually exclusive, where doing extra tricks also saves time. But, for a game where doing something that's not as fast as possible would be more entertaining, I think it's important to define and follow a definite goal that allows for it to be more entertaining, instead of just trying to mix speed and entertainment in some undefined way. Aiming for highest score in Star Fox 64 with fastest time that gets that score is a good example. Even made-up limitations are fine, I think, if they are simple and allow for the movie to be more entertaining. No damage, highest score, no failing bonus rounds, 100%/0% items/kills, no running, etc. have all been used before. None of this "As fast as possible except when it looks cooler", there should be some way to formalize that or else it's impossible for anyone but the original author to improve (or evaluate) the movie. (edit: and this hasn't been done much but I think that "shows as many bugs as possible" would also be a good one for certain games even though it's a little vague, as long as it's defined clearly enough.)
Posted: 11/9/2005 4:07 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I agree with you totally. There should be clear goals, and there should be clear priorities for those goals.
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Posted: 11/9/2005 2:02 PM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (247)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I have taken decisions to unclearly waste time to show tricks in many previous runs. I think that when it doesn't look like it could have been faster, it's a good opportunity to show tricks. I mean, it can be slower as long as it doesn't give that impression.
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Posted: 11/10/2005 12:31 AM
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DrJones
Joined: 4/3/2005
Posts: 575
Location: Spain
As Fast as possible is the most important as competition goes. That's why submissions come with the time lenght, duh. Even a movie of a fighting game in which the player performs always the same attacks is interesting, because it sets the minimum time required to beat the game. On the other hand, movies processed are meant to be watched. They shouldn't be boring. It's more interesting to process a movie which also entertains. I personally find it okay if stunts don't take too much time. Could a TAS be accepted just for record purposes, with no intention to publish a video movie of it? Not that I'm suggesting anything. I'm just just curious.
No.
Posted: 11/10/2005 1:09 AM
(Edited: 8/16/2021 9:45 AM)
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Deviance
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
.
Posted: 11/10/2005 6:32 AM
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Dr._Morbis
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 29
Location: Calgary, AB
Dragon Warrior is a good example of this issue. By going through all of the dungeons/caves in the dark, it is obviously the fastest way to complete the game. But the movie would be much more entertaining if the author spent that extra fraction of a second needed to light up the caves (I don't remember at what level you get radiant, but having to buy torches would complicate things). It may make the run a bit longer, but it would be much more entertaining. Unfortunately (from my point of view) the videos on this site put time as the overwhelmingly most important aspect of a run, to the detriment of everything else. (A no-death run in Super C is cancelled by purposely dying right at the end of the game to save a few seconds? WTF?)
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