Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
I'll take the lack of responses as encouragement to keep going.
Anyway, I said I'd upload an new WIP when level 5 is done. It's done now. Comment if you wish. I find it weird that the levels generally get shorter the further you go.
Next step will be a submission.
Edit[/b]: Freakin' Sardius...
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Nice so far. Just wondering if the bracelet is really the best weapon. Also don't forget that the bracelet can destroy enemy projectiles. The only part I saw that this would be useful was in the Ice stage when you had to shoot down a big dude with 4-5 shots because he had started to breathe. I was suprised though when you avoided the snowslides...I thought those were an auto kill like the water-waves. And how did you jump straight to the last level?
I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Yes, remember how I said I'd probably be using the torch? Turns out I was wrong. I am very confident in my decision to use the bracelet for most of the game.
The projectile destroying capability of the bracelet is only available when you're wearing the gold armor, so no go on that Woo.
While you're at it, you should check out the completed movie. :P
Call me if you have any other questions.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
I've been working on an RTA for this game for a few months now, and finally decided I should consider using the TAS strat for the fight against Nebiroth at the end, since it'll cut a large chunk of time off my run. The issue is that I cannot figure out quite how the TAS manages to hit him so frequently. It looks like the goddess bracelet is hitting him at heights below his head. Could anybody shed some light on this for me?
Thanks!
Here's a lua script I created for this game that displays enemy life, Arthur's hitbox, enemy hitboxes, the triggers for hidden chests, and Arthur's weapons/magic.
http://pastebin.com/xysUDVpz
ISSUES:
I'm unable to tell if a projectile (green) box is "active", for instance the 1st stage boss has a big projectile box in front of its face, but no hit detection occurs, stage 5's boss has a strange hitbox detection as well, as well as the demons in stage 4 with the tail trails (their tails have boxes but you're unable to register a hit if you hit their tails).
Didn't bother to find arthurs hitbox when he is transformed by the magician.
Also didn't bother to find his shield's hitbox either.
Sometimes the same object structure that previously held an enemy's life value will display a number indicating its HP value when it doesn't have one. This is because the game doesn't clear out the HP value when it reuses the object structure.
Other than that, the script works great. I have no idea what some of the red boxes in stage 1 do, the third big one triggers a ground shift, but some don't.
BLUE BOX = Arthur's vulnerability
RED BOX = Touch collision, if Arthur's blue box touches the red box he takes damage, or gains the item.
GREEN BOX = Projectile collision box.
WHITE BOX = Arthur's weapon/magic.
Numbers over enemy's are their remaining HP, numbers on Arthur's weapons/magic are the damage it will deal.
Enjoy!
NOTE:
For some reason the default LUA51.DLL that comes with the current archive on snes9x's googlecode page doesn't display RED or white when using GUI.BOX (and possibly other functions). It works fine when I use the mame-rr lua51.dll that was in this archive:
http://code.google.com/p/mame-rr/downloads/
If you manage to skip the first raft in stage 2, you can skip the auto scroller. I'm not confident this is possible yet, though... I'm quite a few pixels away from reaching it.
I made a video which shows an idea I had for reaching the second raft (not 100% optimized), as well as editing values to make arthur reach the raft and show what would happen. You'd need armor with you for magic cast I-frames, so damage boosts are out of the question...
Link to video
I tested a version of that particular skip via infinite jump cheats some time ago, but in that case the boss would not spawn. I'm curious what the major difference is for what you're doing that allows the boss to spawn. I specifically tested landing immediately on the 2nd raft, but if there's some point at which you can death warp to it instead then it might be workable.
collect, analyse, categorise.
"Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;)
Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on.
1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans.
2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai.
(last updated: 18.03.2018)
I personally don't like that the TAS only plays one half of the game, but each to their own. I don't know how it goes for professional, but on normal the second loop becomes more difficult... though perhaps not so for a TAS I will admit. Still, if someone is only interested in one loop, they can choose to not watch the entire video.
Just finding the new updates on this thread now! I admit I didn't read the giant wall of text above, so some of this might be repeat info. I'll just chime in on a few things that might be relevant to the TAS.
1. Autoscroller skip. As Omnigamer mentioned, we tested this awhile ago, and not only did we find that it wasn't really possible, but if you did managed to land cleanly on the bottom raft, the boss wouldn't spawn. I was trying to approach it with a damage boost (lure a mimic ghost into a really shallow downward angle, then maximize your double jump and damage boost afterwards) but was unsuccessful. Omnigamer made an infinite double jump code to test after the fact. I really doubt it is possible to land on there through any means, unfortunately.
2. The bee transformation is really special because Arthur has no hitbox on the ground. He also gets a pretty substantial boost if transforming in mid-air, which might be useful in reaching platforms that are normally out of reach. It is possible to land on the first platform of 2a with a bee transformation boost off the first chest magician, but I remember it not being faster because bees can't climb ladders. You can also take advantage of the bee special effect to skip the 2nd row of lava in stage 3 without damage boosting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3q5lilJO4M). This is slower in real time, so it is almost definitely useless for a TAS.
3. Awhile ago, I tried skipping rotation cycles in stage 4 by damage boosting to the end of 4a. While it is possible to reach the "end" of the screen early, there is no loading zone present.
4. I've been considering redoing this TAS for about 4 years, but there are a lot of things stopping me. This game has a TON of lag and there are some really, really rare occurrences that have the potential to save a lot of time on that front, but I have no idea what controls them. For example, I despawned the background music in stage 2 a few times (example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcFHu5u_sd4), but have been unable to consistently replicate it. Sometimes no bats ever spawn in stage 3b, and sometimes no shield guys ever spawn in the ice cave of stage 5. There are so many small things like these that would save appreciable time in a TAS but are so wildly random that I can't reproduce them. I found one way to eventually despawn the bats in 3b by the 2nd tower, and one way to force the shield guys to never spawn in stage 5 with the axe magic, but I can't trigger them in any other way with any kind of consistency.
5. I believe a TAS of this should be two loops, and should use as many different weapons as possible. I think the end result would be an absolutely incredible TAS, but the amount of upfront work I'd have to put in to testing all the different speeds of the weapons is really daunting. I know for the fact that the dagger is not the fastest in all situations, but has really good lag reduction properties. Optimal torch play (like in a TAS) should be faster on every boss except stage 4, and that boss is fastest with upgraded axe. The bosses are relatively simple though; the tricky part is minimizing lag in the stages themselves and figuring out those 1 in a million situations where enemies never spawn or the music goes away.
I know I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, but I can't remember what else I wanted to mention. I post here again if I can think of it.
Like many things in this game, I have no idea what causes it. I had the music change in stage 1 on opening a chest (that VOD was lost...), and was never able to reproduce it. I don't even have any idea of how to begin looking for it besides playing this game a LOT again, exclusively on emulator, and recording everything in hopes that some freak accident happens and we can investigate.
While on the topic of "crazy things that haven't been explained," I'm curious if anybody might know technical details related to this bug:
Link to video
As far as I know, this is SNES-hardware dependent for specific 1CHIP full-size models. I have a model of SNES that shows the same effects. In this case it's just graphical anomalies, but I'm wondering if it could have any subtle effects in this or other games as well.
As far as I know, this is SNES-hardware dependent for specific 1CHIP full-size models. I have a model of SNES that shows the same effects. In this case it's just graphical anomalies, but I'm wondering if it could have any subtle effects in this or other games as well.
In the game called Secret of Evermore there is a possible skip called Verminator skip which lets you skip the boss Verminator which is known to only work on specific SNES models such as the Super Famicom, SNES Mini or a 1-Chip SNES. It is being assumed that it is related to the sound chip that makes this skip either crash or not. And even for Emulators it's known to only work on specific ones and even for them it's random if it will work or not. So I can't really help out with your issues this game has but I can in fact confirm that such strange things happen in other games as well.
I'm not really looking for help so much as just a better understanding of what hardware differences actually cause this. The behavior is awfully specific (incorrect sprite ordering for just 1 stage?), and as far as I know there aren't a whole lot of implementation details for the various SNES hardware revisions. It could be something like Genesis Model 3 where some instructions were fixed when they re-made the CPU, but ironically some games relied on the broken behavior of those instructions. Most of what I've seen for different SNES revisions are just changes to encoders and board layout. The above behavior isn't specific to 1CHIP models either, as I have a mini-SNES that doesn't show this same error. It's confusing, but something I'd really like to understand for TAS purposes.
Perhaps not useful for the TAS, but here's another strange situation I've only seen once: Nebiroth only walking to the right. Sure would be handy for runs if he'd do that more often! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/150857258?t=17m01s
For the flying armor despawns in stage 5, my guess is that the object limit is reached.
I made a clip that has a lua script counter for how many slots are available (-1 = full) and the flying armors only appearing after it clears up some.
It's not a complete despawn like PJ mentioned but it might be related, who knows (flying armor spawner never activating due to no available slots? no idea).
Link to video
@Omnigamer, I don't know if it helps but I get the same graphical glitches if I try to play in through my gave saver. It goes away if I password to stage 2 and then reset.
Here's something matamadae showed me the other day: https://clips.twitch.tv/JollyHedonisticCrowArgieB8
You can get crossbow speed in stage 1 by casting the magic while exiting a cage. With this, you can somehow bypass cockatrice's i-frames with the dagger. I was able to get crossbow speed myself, but I didn't get the glitchy boss part to work.
Not sure if this is faster or not as you'd have to get gold armor and all that.
We have a new WR time for the game: 21 seconds by Malcome!
Link to video
Jokes aside, I'm guessing this is "only" a crash & music switch rather than the game failing to play the credits proper.
I'm thinking it's caused by the coffin and fire pillar overlapping... but not sure. There's definitely been cases before where the games tries to spawn an enemy and loads faulty data - for example, here's a misplaced wolf. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/164646884?t=04s
Joined: 10/29/2014
Posts: 176
Location: Bavaria, Germany
I'm interested in this and after some testing, I think the reason for it probably is related to some enemy and or enemy projectile limit, or related to an enemy projectile existing while the enemy that fired said projectile doesn't exist anymore. In particular I think this might be related to the Red Skull Flames enemy to the left, since after Arthur passes some x position (roughly at the right side where the rock pillar is, as soon as Arthur would walk past its edge and fall down, but maybe already a slight bit further to the left), this left Red Skull Flames enemy will be despawned, and in the video the timing might just be right such that it barely manages to fire another projectile before or while it despawns, and on top of this, the game already started spawning the right Red Skull Flames enemy aswell as the leftwards walking zombie (at the same spot), which might be too many objects for the game to handle. Or it could be that the left Red Skull Flames enemy fires its projectile (which one unfortunately doesn't see if there is one), then despawns, then the right Red Skull Flames enemy spawns and starts initiating the process to fire an own projectile of the same type, and maybe tries to take over or possess the previous Red Skull Flame's projectile and some code collides, but I can only make guesses/theories on what caused this.
Edit: If we're unlucky, then Arthur's position or enemy positions or the game timer's value or the score value might also be relevant and play a role in this. Another potential reason for this occurrence might be that the left Red Skull Flames enemy just finished firing its projectile and starts another projectile initiation phase at the same time as when the newly appearing Red Skull Flames enemy tries to do the same (or maybe the number of fireball projectiles is meant to be limited to at most 2 existing or being produced at the same time). Maybe one can get interesting results if one manipulates the left Red Skull Flames enemy (aswell as the right one) to both fire their projectiles horizontally to the right and then keep the screen going to the right with Arthur and reach the next pair of these enemies to try to have as many of their projectiles active or being produced at the same time. Considering that their fireball projectiles seem to add a great deal to the amount of lag occuring, this might be an indicator for them doing some strange things in the game's code, so I'd focus on these. Actually, the rising up of a Red Skull Flames enemy aswell as when it starts it's long animation until a fireball projectile is generated seem to cause more lag than the sole existence of their projectiles once they have been generated. Based on this observation, I think the cause of this strange occurrence is likely correlated to the right Red Skull Flames enemy starting with it's head wiggling animation combined with something else happening or having happened shortly beforehand. Also no, it turns out 3 4 of their fireballs can exist at the same time without problems:
It might also help to kill enemies (to initiate their death routines and explosion animations) around the moment of greatest lag (in order to create a glitch). And I assume one would also want to keep Arthur from blinking/having i-frames (since this probably reduces lag when it doesn't draw Arthur every other frame, makes it easier for the game to keep going). Apparently, the footage is from this twitch stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/267709696
collect, analyse, categorise.
"Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;)
Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on.
1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans.
2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai.
(last updated: 18.03.2018)
Enjoy!
NOTE:
For some reason the default LUA51.DLL that comes with the current archive on snes9x's googlecode page doesn't display RED or white when using GUI.BOX (and possibly other functions). It works fine when I use the mame-rr lua51.dll that was in this archive:
http://code.google.com/p/mame-rr/downloads/
It might also help to kill enemies (to initiate their death routines and explosion animations) around the moment of greatest lag (in order to create a glitch). And I assume one would also want to keep Arthur from blinking/having i-frames (since this probably reduces lag when it doesn't draw Arthur every other frame, makes it easier for the game to keep going). Apparently, the footage is from this twitch stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/267709696
