Posted: 12/9/2016 1:25 PM
Post subject: FF XII and FF XV, are they any good?
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Warp
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Thought this would be as good of a forum to ask this as anything else. The new Final Fantasy XV is out. Likewise the remastered version of Final Fantasy XII is upcoming. But are they worth buying? And before you answer, let me explain a bit: I love the Final Fantasy franchise up to FF IX (I have in fact played all of them). Even though they made a jump to 3D with FF VII, they all share the common trait of using "traditional" JRPG mechanics. The kind that make such games so enjoyable and addictive. FF X threw all that out of the window, and it's one of the worst video games I have ever played. (If you really want to read a wall-of-text rant about it, I have made a blog post about it. I won't blame you if you can't bother to read all that, though.) It ditched basically all traditional JRPG elements for a rather different kind of game genre, and slapped the "Final Fantasy" brand name onto it. FF XIII (and its sequels) followed suit, by being pretty much a clone of FF X, just with another setting, but with more abstract scenery and a significantly more confusing story. (At first I thought that FF XIII was the first game where Square/Enix changed the franchise completely to this new kind of game genre, but I was wrong. FF X was the first one where they did that.) When the remastered version of FF X appeared on the PlayStation store, I bought it thinking that I finally would get a chance to play a FF game that I had never had the opportunity to play before. I assumed that it was the same kind of game as all the previous ones (eg. FF IX, which was great.) I was completely wrong, and ended up regretting that purchase. Thus I'm a bit wary about the upcoming remastered version of FF XII. If I end up buying it, will the story just repeat itself? Is that game of the same genre as FF X and FF XIII? Does it lack basically all JRPG elements, instead replacing them with mind-bogglingly linear levels and a sheer overabundance of cutscenes? Does it compare more to pre-FFX games, or to FFX and FFXIII? The same question for the new FF XV, if anybody here has had the opportunity to play it. Since I hate spoilers, I have very little information about it. All I know is that, at least, it seemingly does not use traditional JRPG-style turn-based combat, although that's not a major deal if it's otherwise good. (In fact, the combat system in FF XIII was the best part of the game, and it was essentially the only thing that helped me play the game to the end.)
Posted: 12/9/2016 6:30 PM
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arandomgameTASer
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FFXII is...ok. Its gameplay style is modeled after MMOs, so it's pretty open-ended. FFXV is also ok, but I'm not spoiling that.
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Posted: 12/11/2016 5:47 PM
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nfq
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At first when I saw and played X, I thought it sucked too, because Tidus seemed so weird, but it was actually a really good game. I haven't played XV but I can see just from the visual design of the game that I would like it. The artistic style alone makes it a piece of art that I think I would enjoy. Unfortunately, it's not available for PC, so I can't buy it.
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Posted: 12/11/2016 6:00 PM
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natt
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Everyone has their own opinion about whether FFXII is good or not, but I think most people would agree that it's much different than all of the other FF games, including FFX, FFXIII, and FFIX and below. So I can't say whether or not you'll like it, but I can say that if you don't like it, it will be for different reasons. I personally liked FFX quite a bit, and FFXII is one of my favorite games of all time. I thought FFXIII was utter dogshit.
Posted: 12/12/2016 4:22 PM
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Warp
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natt wrote:
I personally liked FFX quite a bit, and FFXII is one of my favorite games of all time. I thought FFXIII was utter dogshit.
I'm honestly curious why you think FFX is ok while FFXIII is garbage. As I see it, almost everything that FFXIII did wrong, FFX did it first. I have hard time thinking of something that FFX does better than FFXIII. Ok, maybe the story in FFX, while bland and not very engaging (and at points a bit cringeworthy) is a bit easier to follow and understand than the one of FFXIII (which was so confusing and so poorly told, in my experience, that I just couldn't follow it, and half the time I had no idea what the characters were referring to. It was full of confusing names and terms that were poorly explained, and I was constantly lost on what exactly they are talking about.) While the level design in FFX is really bad (for a JRPG in general, and a Final Fantasy game in particular), consisting almost solely of short ultra-linear levels (just like FFXIII), at least the scenery was somewhat less abstract and, maybe, slightly more connected to the story being told, than in XIII (although not by much). Not at all points in the story, but at many. Other than those, I can't really think of things that FFX did better than FFXIII, even if barely. Anyway, if FF XII is not of the same type of game as X and XIII, then I will probably give it a try. I hope I don't experience the same level of utter disappointment as with FFX. FF XV might also be on my buying list in the future, maybe if there's a sale or something. Hopefully it's better than XIII.
Posted: 12/12/2016 6:52 PM
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arandomgameTASer
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Warp wrote:
As I see it, almost everything that FFXIII did wrong, FFX did it first. I have hard time thinking of something that FFX does better than FFXIII.
Its actual gameplay's a big one. Instead of mindlessly mashing auto-battle so the game can play itself, you're always actively making choices in the battle. There's no dumb time pressure, you have all the time in the world to pick what you want to do. Plus let's not forget the Sphere Grid, and how 13 simplified it just as much to be hold x until you run out of CP. In FFX it's a perfect fusion of the customization present in ff5-8, combined with the character classes of 1, 4, and 8. In 13 it's just like 'oh cool I unlocked secondary roles. Now I can make Lightning a saboteur....wait, it costs 3000 CP per node and I have to grind excessively to get them to a decent level? Screw that'. Also there's more content in ffx besides fighting enemies, watching cutscenes, and....hunting...enemies. There's also blitzball, chocobo racing (ugh), and the Monster Arena. They definitely thought that regular combat could get boring, so they added some silly minigames and sidequests.
Warp wrote:
Ok, maybe the story in FFX, while bland and not very engaging (and at points a bit cringeworthy) is a bit easier to follow and understand than the one of FFXIII.
That's mainly a fault of the english dub. X HD has a japanese voiceover option, which is much better. Agree with you on 13's plot, it's bad.
Warp wrote:
While the level design in FFX is really bad (for a JRPG in general, and a Final Fantasy game in particular), consisting almost solely of short ultra-linear levels (just like FFXIII), at least the scenery was somewhat less abstract and, maybe, slightly more connected to the story being told, than in XIII (although not by much). Not at all points in the story, but at many.
At least in FFX you can backtrack to old locations whenever you want. FFXIII doesn't even have that until the VERY end (even then, you're only backtracking to one map, really). Anyway, to each his own, but I feel you're being a bit harsh on ffx.
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Posted: 12/22/2016 11:32 PM
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c-square
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I am very much with you, I hated X and XIII wasn't much better. Both were very linear with little exploration available. I felt I was being railroaded, just to get to the next checkpoint to further the story. (Oddly, though, I loved X-2. I'd be happy to talk about that if you're interested). XII on the other hand, ranks among my favourites in the series, below VI, on par with VII and above IX! The whole open world concept was the exact opposite of X and XIII, and there was so much to see and do, so much you could access way before you were "supposed to" if you put the time into it. Another great thing about it is that there's no cheesy romance story (very minor spoiler), which was quite refreshing. I really felt I could connect with the characters, and cared about their world and their struggles (something that I certainly can't say for XIII). By the end, it felt like I had accomplished something epic and grand, and thinking about the ending still has me smiling nostalgically (much the way IX and VI's endings do). If you do decide to pick it up, please come back here and post your thoughts. I'd love to hear what your take is.
Posted: 12/25/2016 10:30 AM
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Warp
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c-square wrote:
XII on the other hand, ranks among my favourites in the series, below VI, on par with VII and above IX!
I suppose you convinced me to get the remastered version, when it's published. (I hope it's not exceedingly expensive.)
Posted: 12/26/2016 12:25 AM
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thatguy
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For some reason this conversation reminded me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMU1_-_4WKg
Posted: 12/28/2016 4:27 PM
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erokky
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It seems you've already made up your mind but VI and IX are my favorite games of the series. XII is a departure from them but I still found it highly enjoyable. Personally, it ranks just below VI and IX. Balthier (the real protagonist of the game, not Vaan) is really charming. Witty, funny, and he really makes the game his own. I think if you're anything like me, you'll love XII. I've been waiting for an HD remaster of XII ever since before they announced a HD remaster for X. I'm looking forward to it. For now, I'm enjoying XV. It's a big, bold and beautiful game, but the sidequests are too many and meaningless; I'm level 50 and I just defeated Jormungand (in the Crestholm Channels) and the recommended level of the next story mission is 10... I've also scaled the volcano but there was no boss at the apex, probably because it's still too early in the game. Edit: Oh, and I hated X and XIII but on subsequent playthroughs you sorta learn to love 'em in their own way.
Posted: 2/19/2017 8:19 PM
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Warp
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So I bought FF XV, given that it was a bit on sale. I have played one hour of it so far. Since long I have been a bit dubious about the setting of the game. I mean, modern cars in a Final Fantasy game? That's nonsensical! However, so far I like the Japanese dudebro road trip setting. It's cool. At the beginning tutorial I was also a bit dubious about the battle system. I just like the traditional "old-fashioned" turn-based battle systems of JRPGs. But after some battles, perhaps it's ok too. In terms of linearity, this seems to be the polar opposite of FFX and FFXIII. It's a wide open sandbox from the very beginning. And the graphics look gorgeous.
Posted: 2/19/2017 11:05 PM
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Patashu
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Warp wrote:
So I bought FF XV, given that it was a bit on sale. I have played one hour of it so far. Since long I have been a bit dubious about the setting of the game. I mean, modern cars in a Final Fantasy game? That's nonsensical!
Remember FF8? That had cars and tanks and even freakin' spaceships.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:14 AM
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Warp
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Patashu wrote:
Remember FF8? That had cars and tanks and even freakin' spaceships.
From what I remember it was more sci-fi than just regular modern cars. I could remember wrong, though.
Posted: 2/20/2017 7:54 AM
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Patashu
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Yes, it was sci-fi. Still though, it's weird to say that fantasy is ok, sci-fi is okay but having technology yet not being sci-fi is dubious. :) How do you think sci-fi gets started? It had to be modern before it was sci-fi.
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Posted: 5/18/2017 8:56 AM
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YushiroGowa
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FFXV GET TO YOUR NEAREST GAME STORE AND BUY THE CRAP OUT OF IT YOU WILL NOT REGRET ONE NANOSECOND OF GAMEPLAY
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Posted: 5/18/2017 9:10 AM
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Warp
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Final Fantasy XV... It looks good, and the setting is somewhat interesting. It's mostly a wide open sandbox, which is great. I'm not very fond of the combat system. At first it's confusing and hard to really understand. But of course, as usual, when you play it enough, you start getting it, and getting more fluent at it. However, even after that I wasn't very fond of it. Dare I say that I even liked the combat system of FF XIII more (not that it was the best I have ever played, but I think it was better than the one in XV.) (I really, really, really detest the idea that Square Enix is going to use the same (or a very similar) fighting mechanic in their upcoming remake of FF7. It's going to ruin the game. F*** them. Honestly.) While the open world mechanic is quite nice and enjoyable, by the about 20 or 30 hours of gameplay it starts wearing out and feel repetitive (don't get me wrong, something like 30 hours of somewhat interesting gameplay is nothing to scoff at; it's just that I have played wide open sandbox games that have lasted a lot longer than that before getting boring). At some point it mostly consists of repetitive fetch quests, in addition to the main quests. The story is a bit meh, in my opinion. By the end parts of the game it becomes much more linear. (For example there's a really infamous chapter or two that everybody hates for being so linear, boring and devoid of anything interesting, and I can't blame them.) Somehow, for some reason, the difficulty also spikes enormously. So much so, in fact, that I stopped playing the game.
Posted: 5/18/2017 10:25 AM
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Pokota
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As fas as FFXII goes, I recently bought the PS2 version and I'm enjoying it. The battle system feels really clean, even though it also feels a bit like one that would be in an MMO (which I believe FFXI was supposed to be? I never owned it though). I don't have the means to play anything newer than XII barring a PC co-release.
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