Post subject: Taking a slower route for entertainment purposes?
Sabitsuki
He/Him
Joined: 3/26/2016
Posts: 28
A while back I made a TAS of a game called Yume Nikki. In this TAS at about the 8:30 mark I took a route that was a few seconds slower because it looked really cool. Is this something that is common? I only ask because I may be remaking the TAS due to possible route changes besides what I described. Link to video
JorWat25
He/Him
Player (18)
Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 79
Location: United Kingdom
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2242)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
An entirely different route seems a bit much for a tradeoff in my opinion, unless there's some meaning behind why you're taking that route that's more than "Because it looks cool". If you're going out of your way for something that would make the run more entertaining, there actually has to be something that makes the run more entertaining.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Sabitsuki
He/Him
Joined: 3/26/2016
Posts: 28
Samsara wrote:
An entirely different route seems a bit much for a tradeoff in my opinion, unless there's some meaning behind why you're taking that route that's more than "Because it looks cool". If you're going out of your way for something that would make the run more entertaining, there actually has to be something that makes the run more entertaining.
Both of the routes lead to the same place so it isn't that much of a trade off. The main difference is one route is humanly possible the other isn't even close to humanly possible, and it is also a great demonstration of how fast the movement actually is. Then again it is not a demonstration, so I feel like the faster route, even though less entertaining, is most likely the best way to go.
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2242)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Consider that the people watching the run aren't all going to be familiar with what is and isn't possible in the game. Watching that section myself (and only having a passing familiarity with the game), I didn't see anything exciting that would warrant adding seconds to the final product. The way I've always done entertainment tradeoffs is "What can I do to entertain everyone?" Not just fans of the game, but everyone. Something that looks super cool to you may not look the same way to everyone else, so consider what the general audience will think before you make decisions like this. Asking like this is a great idea, though, if you're really not sure.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Former player
Joined: 9/1/2005
Posts: 803
I just watched the entire video you linked in the first post. While it may be apparent to someone who played the game as to why that path is difficult, as someone who has not, the choice means nothing. I presume there is a lot of behind the scenes manipulation to avoid getting into battles or the like, and there being some absurdly strong enemies on that path and you manipulate them away, but to me the run as a whole was actually pretty uninteresting. Run to point A, collect item. Run to point B, collect item. Repeat for the entire game with no real idea of what's going on until you jump off a building at the end. If there's a visible difference in difficulty of the path chosen (to the watcher) which makes it incredibly difficult for a regular player to get through, then sure, sacrifice some time to show it being breezed through while noting exactly how much time is lost by choosing that path for that purpose. But as it is, to me there would've been no difference either way because at no point are you under any kind of a visible threat.
Sabitsuki
He/Him
Joined: 3/26/2016
Posts: 28
Atma wrote:
I just watched the entire video you linked in the first post. While it may be apparent to someone who played the game as to why that path is difficult, as someone who has not, the choice means nothing. I presume there is a lot of behind the scenes manipulation to avoid getting into battles or the like, and there being some absurdly strong enemies on that path and you manipulate them away, but to me the run as a whole was actually pretty uninteresting. Run to point A, collect item. Run to point B, collect item. Repeat for the entire game with no real idea of what's going on until you jump off a building at the end. If there's a visible difference in difficulty of the path chosen (to the watcher) which makes it incredibly difficult for a regular player to get through, then sure, sacrifice some time to show it being breezed through while noting exactly how much time is lost by choosing that path for that purpose. But as it is, to me there would've been no difference either way because at no point are you under any kind of a visible threat.
This is mainly a TAS meant for fans of the game. As a whole from a subjective standpoint this game is very uninteresting. It has no RPG mechanics in it, and is solely a game based on surreal imagery. Not that it shouldn't try to be made to appeal to everyone, but I am guessing that people who are not fans will find it boring.
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4045
My suggestion would be to have the main TAS be as fast as possible with no tradeoffs, and then have bonus videos for any inhuman but slow routes/segments that you'd like to show off.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Editor, Player (44)
Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1029
This seems like the sort of thing that would make for a good YouTube video or the like, rather than a submitted TAS. Especially if the game has no RPG mechanics, it seems like something that can be put up IL style as a "look what you can do" type of thing.
Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 545
Location: Where?
An another perspective is to have them for the gruefood thing. There is that 16 stars TAS that was submitted after the 0 star TAS just for the sake of updating the old 16 stars route. It has it mention in the description if I am correct. So yeah you can aim for something like that. :)
Sabitsuki
He/Him
Joined: 3/26/2016
Posts: 28
ais523 wrote:
This seems like the sort of thing that would make for a good YouTube video or the like, rather than a submitted TAS. Especially if the game has no RPG mechanics, it seems like something that can be put up IL style as a "look what you can do" type of thing.
Agreed, although this TAS is unable to be submitted to tasvideos due to special circumstances.
Experienced player (691)
Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2239
Location: Guatemala
Those circumstances being the version being used, which is a fan translation. I'm still in favor of using the original Japanese version instead since I actually want a submission, but the lack of glitches in that version really sets me off.
Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony
Sabitsuki
He/Him
Joined: 3/26/2016
Posts: 28
Kurabupengin wrote:
Those circumstances being the version being used, which is a fan translation. I'm still in favor of using the original Japanese version instead since I actually want a submission, but the lack of glitches in that version really sets me off.
Exactly no one would care if the TAS was just going at bike speed the whole time.
Jigwally
He/Him
Active player (428)
Joined: 3/11/2012
Posts: 119
Sometimes I've seen people make "humanly possible" TASes under the name of "Human Theory TASes" They don't get published here but they can be useful for speedrunners as a realistic lower bound for RTA times I think sometimes even new routes and glitches can be found when restricting yourself in this way