Post subject: Re: warn: image heavy
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Omega wrote:
Maybe you can make a custom map that's just one long corridor, Bisqwit?
Here you go! http://bisqwit.iki.fi/kala/megacorridor.zip
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I've found the loop. It seems to be 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1. Thus: 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, [...] etc. The speed is 1.375 pixels per frame. It's pretty tedious to post all the frames that I've tested so instead I'll give them all with difference blend mode (nothing to see there, really, but it's fun anyway): I'll test if this is the same for jumping later. I only very briefly looked at it with frame advance, but I think that it's slightly different (I'm thinking 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, from what I could see without taking screenshots). I'll do this more accurately later. Looks like you might need to make a bot to calculate when the best time to jump is if you're ever gonna remake Rockman, Bisqwit, since I know I wouldn't want to have to think so much about every single jump. :)
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It's a strange finding. I would have expected it to be more straightforward. I found this code, which is somehow related to Megaman's movement, but I'm not yet sure whether it's applies to A)climbing B)walking C)jumping. $94E7> A5 94: LDA MegamanWalkTimer $94E9> F0 0E: BEQ + ; $94F9 $94EB> A5 23: LDA FrameCounter $94ED> 29 03: AND #$03 $94EF> D0 08: BNE + ; $94F9 $94F1> A9 01: LDA #$01 $94F3> 85 95: STA MegamanStallTimer $94F5> EE A006: INC $06A0 $94F8> 60: RTS + $94F9> A9 00: LDA #$00 $94FB> 85 95: STA MegamanStallTimer $94FD> 85 94: STA MegamanWalkTimer Ps: This all applies to Rockman 1. This is a Mega Man 2 thread. What should we do about it? Edit: Oh, I'll know. I'll move'em to the right thread.
Post subject: ladder functions partially disassembled
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I analyzed the Rockman code a bit, and I found out why the "grabbing ladder top too high" trick works in the way it does. When the game thinks that Rockman has cleared the ladder (by climbing up) (that is, he's climbing up but the tile his upper portion lies on is not a ladder), it resets rockman's position with this formula: Y = (Y & 0xF0) + 0x0C The idea of that formula is to ensure that when he clears the ladder, he's properly positioned right on top of the ladder, and will not start falling. But if his climbing position was a little too high, that formula will actually place him 16 pixels above the ladder, as demonstrated in this image: https://files.tasvideos.org/gameresources/nes/rockman/updowntrick2.gif The same code is also probably responsible of this effect: https://files.tasvideos.org/gameresources/nes/rockman/vertgrab.gif I also found out, how climbing down works. When Rockman is trying to climb down, the game first checks whether Rockman's body is on a ladder. If that's not the case, it will drop Rockman by 12 pixels. Then it will actually climb him. (Wow, that sounds quite obvious and bland when I think of it.) So why does pressing "up+down" over a ladder work like it does? At first, I had no idea. According to the code, the game should ignore "down" if "up" is pressed. But we already know that's not true. Then I found that there's more to it. The game completely ignores up/down buttons if there is no ladder anywhere near Rockman. By ignoring, I mean it won't even check if they're pressed. Nice. When there is a ladder in sight, it checks for two things: * If Up (but not Down) is pressed, but the ladder in sight is below Rockman, the key is ignored. * If Down (but not Up) is pressed, but the ladder in sight covers whole Rockman (both the upper and lower part of his torso) but not below him, the key is ignored. These tests are rather dubious. Here's where up+down steps in: When you hold up+down, neither of those tests match, so it will go straight into Ladder_Handler, assuming that Rockman is now climbing. After that, it will hold priority to the Up key (Down is ignored if Up is pressed), and if Up was pressed and there's no ladder behind Rockman's upper torso, he'll perform an exit from the ladder, finally explaining the up+down trick. According to this analysis, the "down" key is also ignored when Rockman is walking past a ladder, but not if the ladder is shorter than 2 blocks. Edit: Analysis proven correct. See http://bisqwit.iki.fi/kala/tinyladder.zip (Cutman level beginning). Press or hold down when you pass the ladder. This quirk is responsible for this behavior (note closely what happens when Rockman passes below the ladder): I can't think of ways to abuse the "drop Rockman by 12 pixels" feature. To do it, you would need to find a way to put Rockman so that the game thinks he's now located near a ladder (but not over a ladder), but so that when he drops by 12 pixels, he's still not over the ladder.
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Bisqwit wrote:
But if his climbing position was a little too high, that formula will actually place him 16 pixels above the ladder, as demonstrated in this image: https://files.tasvideos.org/gameresources/nes/rockman/updowntrick2.gif
Remember when I wrote that I experienced this strange trick/glitch? I guess you proved me right with that .gif?
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
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AngerFist wrote:
Remember when I wrote that I experienced this strange trick/glitch? I guess you proved me right with that .gif?
I have no idea what you're talking about, and that particular GIF has been around since April. :)
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Well I mentioned a few months ago that I in some mysterious way got hit while simultaneously pressing all buttons (in Elecman when I was holding the ladder) resulting in Megaman actually jumping further up on the ladder.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
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Ah, yes. This trick was known already by then, but what you claimed (at least, how I remember it) was that the trick can be done in abritrary positions in the ladder. So far, we can only do it at the bottom of it (and at the too-high-position, that is, near the upper surface of it). Your claim is still unproven. After analyzing the code this carefully, I don't think it will be proven, either.
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finalfighter wrote:
Morimoto find the new way to Wily2 & Wily3. It is fast.
Cool, I can get back to work at this movie :P
Post subject: New beam usage plan
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Previously, 4 beams were used in Wily2 and 2 in Wily3. Now, 2 beams are used in Wily2 and 1 in Wily3. In other words, 3 beams less are used. I need 7 beams in the beginning of Wily4. Therefore, I need 10 beams after the refills in Wily2. In the beginning of Wily2, I have 1. If I take two refills, I have 11. If I omit one small refill in Wily1, I'll have the exact amount after the two refills (I need to remanipulate the luck though). I could also use one extra beam in Wily4... I should compare whether the saving of extra beam in Wily4 is larger than the cost of 1 small refill in Wily1.
adelikat
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lol, I knew it wasn't over! More improvements Couldn't the method used in these .mpg's be used in other areas as well?
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
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adelikat wrote:
Couldn't the method used in these .mpg's be used in other areas as well?
Possibly. Have any idea where? (Both of these techniques have already been used in the existing movie in different places.)
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Part 1: 88 frames saved in Wily2. Clone robot fight not yet done. Note: Fireman stage could be improved by 6 frames. Not done. Note: Gutsman stage could be improved by 8-9 frames. Not done. (Yes, the refill is not so sloppy after all. The refill accounts to 6 frames.) (Due to potential desyncs in later levels and general laziness.)
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Somehow I have a feeling this is just the beginning of 'the making of v7'. ;)
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http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/r1w2morimtech.mpg Morimoto found the new tech for wily2. To our regret, it is 14frame slower than r1w2morimoto.mpg. However, this technique might be able to be used in other places.
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finalfighter wrote:
http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/r1w2morimtech.mpg
I didn't understand the motivation of this technique, until I tried it myself. In the last room, it's not possible to repeat the technique of the earlier rooms, because the ceiling of the _next_ room (last room) is not open. It's not possible to jump upwards. By overflowing the beam to the next screen, it's possible to jump on it, and thus perform the trick.
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1: On a right edge of the screen You turn to the left and will run. Then, you can avoid walling, and can put out the magnet beam long. 2: When your beam becomes long, the lever is made a neutral. And, you jump a little, turn around to the right, and release the beam at the same time in the left of the screen. (The beam has occurred from the left under one screen. ) 3:You jump to steps on as far as possible. 4: You turn to the left in this place. (The lever is made a neutral soon. ) You can move right under the part where the hole has become empty on one screen under (Because the head is caught and the distance expands). You can land on the magnet beam in the part where the hole has become empty on the head because you set up the magnet beam in the landing point. 5: If you jump there right above, and you turn to the right in the top of the jump, you can scroll under one screen. 6: Because there is production before megaman fights with the boss It will take time by the time megaman moves to the place automatically decided and time is not to our regret fast so much.
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http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/explainr1w2morimtech.jpg It is the explanation in the image of r1w2morimtech.mpg
Post subject: Re: explanation
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finalfighter wrote:
It is the explanation in the image of r1w2morimtech.mpg
Besides as an explanation of the r1w2morimtech.mpg file, I am recommending this image as an explanation of the horizontal-wrapping trick that happens all over in my movie. It shows very clearly what it means that the maps are 1-dimensional. There is only "previous" and "next" (left and right). Up and down are illusion. When you pass the rightside wall, you're in the next room, which is really on the right, even if it's up or down.
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http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/r1bombsuper.mpg I found super technique for bombmanstage. It is very fastest!
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wow!! ô.o its really fastest XD
<small>My big signature was cleared by admin; i should read <a href="http://tasvideos.org/ForumRules.html">forum rules</a>. But... who does?</small>
adelikat
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*picks up jaw off of floor* :o I bet bisqwit thought all the hard work was over ;)
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
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lets find more tricks like this, and let me get super exciting and hope for a clean 16:30 time :)
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At this rate, the next version will be about 20 seconds long in total. Jesus, this is getting ridiculus. :)