Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands
I personally kinda like the backdashing actually. It looks faster than just running, and it reminds me of SotN.
Anyway, i'll check your WIP when i get home.
It's a good thing someone's planning on doing a 100% run, should be tough for yah.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
I'm glad you're doing the 100% Atma. Once I fix my computer (again, mind you), I will be in IRC a lot, so feel free to find me there or on AIM.
The backdashing is pretty much essential. If you don't use it, someone else will come around and obsolete your movie with it. Best to aim high from the start, I guess. But, like you said, it doesn't look that great. I'm still mad at Nrg for pointing out that the dash looked viable. FYI, the timing for the dash is 8 frames dashing, one frame jumping, and 11 or 12 frames just holding in your direction, followed by one frame turning around. That could be wrong, though, since I haven't played the game on VBA in a few weeks now.
As for the slow start shenanigans, are you using the same ROM as I am? If so, are you using frame advance to skip through everything in the intro faster? Otherwise, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you are inputing a name, as opposed to my simply using start for Soma? That's all I can think of that would cause that.
Otherwise, have fun nabbing souls left and right. If I were you, I would make a little chart of what souls are on your current path, and then make a little progression ladder of which souls benefit the most. You would be surprised how well some of the more retarded spells in the game are in certain situations. Yay Catoblepas and Axe Armor!
As for my movie... well. It's still "in production", I guess. I had a tiny update on the movie, but I don't think I really liked it. I have to turn back from the current WIP a bit and kill a bat that I skipped anyways, so... meh. Also, I need to format my HD because I may have gotten a virus from my new roomie. I'll keep updating as I progress on the movie.
I'm sure this will bite me in the ass if i were to follow it for an all souls run, but here is my initial planning route. after doing it, i realised a couple of significant flaws in it, but given how far out of the way I'd have to go to adjust it.
Who knows how much extra time it will take to kill graham form 2 (not to mention balore), given i wont have the claimh solais, at best I'd have the mysteltain unless i forced a final sword to drop, even though it could potentially waste a lot of time given you can't cancel its swinging animation, not to mention i'd have to kill 2 final guards, unless in some ungodly fashion i got the sword and the soul on the same frame.
The only items i'll potentially force a drop of are baselard, maybe a combat knife, and maybe a final sword. other than that, i'll probably be decently off otherwise, but time will tell.
something i tested on a semi-reasonable file was vs. chaos. the last soul you get is the shadow knight one, and a rough test took me around 2500 frames to get back to the chaos ring, so it'd take a little less to get back. the question is, would it save me > 5000 frames by having it vs chaos? red minotaur spammage could save a lot of time I suppose, but mana prisms or such would solve that, though i dont think i'd have too many of those unless i went relatively out of the way to get them.
Zurreco: yep, i'm using the same rom as you are, dont know what the difference is, given your most recent run is about the same faster than your old ones (you start around frame 2180, the others start about 2280). There's no real point in putting in a name since simply pressing start is faster.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Atma wrote:
Who knows how much extra time it will take to kill graham form 2 (not to mention balore), given i wont have the claimh solais, at best I'd have the mysteltain unless i forced a final sword to drop, even though it could potentially waste a lot of time given you can't cancel its swinging animation, not to mention i'd have to kill 2 final guards, unless in some ungodly fashion i got the sword and the soul on the same frame.
The only items i'll potentially force a drop of are baselard, maybe a combat knife, and maybe a final sword. other than that, i'll probably be decently off otherwise, but time will tell.
There is a trick to Balore which makes him have a very VERY fast fight. If you haven't seen it in WIP form, you can stand on his hands. They're at the perfect height to do fast slashes on his eyes. For Graham 2, you can manipulate his hands to operate to your liking. If I were you, I would test how Medusa + Kicker Skeleton would work on Graham 2, just in case. I can't remember if you can get an infinite combo on him with it.
The Chaos Ring will definitely be necessary for Chaos 1 and 2. You will save a minute, if not more, by using Red Minotaur a lot. All you have to worry about is decimating the red soul keeper in Chaos 1 and then avoiding the yellow soul keeper's drain power. Then, it's all clean sailing.
As for your weapon, I would suggest you go with Baselard -> Combat Knife -> Whip Knuckle/Hrunting -> Laevatain as your weapon sets. They're all the fast hit types, and they're all on a generic path. Also, you can get these weapons all before the harder bosses (Balore, Legion, Graham) pretty simply, and getting Laevatain leaves a few choices for you. There is a possible drop right before and right after the underground cemetary. There is also a loose Laevatain in the Arena, right after a few Red Minotaurs (equates to good exp and the best shooter).
I'll get back to you on your route later, though.
I watched your WIP, and when the movie stopped in front of the Zombie Soldier I killed him and he dropped a soul. =P
Nice work so far. I really like the backwards dash, by the way. So I hope you decide on using it. =)
[There is a trick to Balore which makes him have a very VERY fast fight. If you haven't seen it in WIP form, you can stand on his hands. They're at the perfect height to do fast slashes on his eyes. For Graham 2, you can manipulate his hands to operate to your liking. If I were you, I would test how Medusa + Kicker Skeleton would work on Graham 2, just in case. I can't remember if you can get an infinite combo on him with it.
I tried medusa + kicker skeleton, but didn't get anywhere from it, not to mention it was doing 1 damage. I didn't see the balore WIP, which would probably help me out given that balore is probably my worst boss. I still need to find out how to manipulate grahams hands, and probably death/balore too (graham himself isn't too hard to manipulate)
The Chaos Ring will definitely be necessary for Chaos 1 and 2. You will save a minute, if not more, by using Red Minotaur a lot. All you have to worry about is decimating the red soul keeper in Chaos 1 and then avoiding the yellow soul keeper's drain power. Then, it's all clean sailing.
Yeah, i ended up testing that out, i'm pretty sure skyfish will help it be done even faster, but not by too much.
As for your weapon, I would suggest you go with Baselard -> Combat Knife -> Whip Knuckle/Hrunting -> Laevatain as your weapon sets. They're all the fast hit types, and they're all on a generic path. Also, you can get these weapons all before the harder bosses (Balore, Legion, Graham) pretty simply, and getting Laevatain leaves a few choices for you. There is a possible drop right before and right after the underground cemetary. There is also a loose Laevatain in the Arena, right after a few Red Minotaurs (equates to good exp and the best shooter).
Baselard is a surefire thing (got it already in the revised run), Combat Knife i'll have to work on, going to skip the Hrunting/Whip Knuckle and go right to the Laevatain (pondering whether to get a drop from flame demon vs. going through red minotaurs, since it'd almost certainly be faster that way, and i can pick up the RM soul later). I decided to get the Claimh Solais anyways since i have to go to the forbidden area for mudman's soul, and it shouldn't take very long to get it from there after that (with the CS lubicant/kyoma demon/triton, i was about to beat legion in about 7 seconds, as opposed to > 1 minute). Overall, i think getting the CS will prove to be a better timesaver than avoiding it (at least in 100% soul).
I think the hardest thing to do will be get a few specific souls that i only have one or two chances to get in my planned route (eg. blue bird, i only see four of those in total, only one red bird, two buers etc.). oh well, will be interesting (and annoying) to pull it off :P
Any idea on if it'd be worth it manipulating a black belt to drop? (and since i'm going for no damage, i'm going to try to get some rotten food to drop, since it doesn't seem to be too rare in comparison to the CK; lubicant for the win!). and finally (for this post at least, 8 hours after i started writing it) i found out where those initial extra frames came from: 6 from 'start from power-on' as opposed to 'start from reset', and the rest were from specific timing in pressing a during talking.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
mini-update: My project is back on track now. The movie now starts from power on (thanks to TNSe) and I have begun testing my control over Soma with Atma's help. In 6 days I should have some sort of update to the WIP, although I can't promise much. Hoe hasn't finalized his VBA+ tool, so that means I get to go back to testing 5 million combonations of button presses just to pick up a soul here and there. Hurrah.
On the plus side, Atma and I have been tossing around route ideas for the any% coming up, since he will take a crack at it too. That means that you'll see a near perfect route soon enough. We may even skip Death >_>
If I recall properly, the only time the potential outcome will change is if the int32 at 0x02000008 changes. So watch that in the memory viewer.
I have not stopped working on it, I have just split my efforts across very broad grounds and I'm not progressing much in AoS at the moment.
EmuRead is currently extreamly stable and in a very release worthy state. The only problem is the lack of use it has with little to no read ahead prediction. One thing I have been putting my interest into is Tetris, and creating a bot for it. The problem being, I have no valid way to send key strokes to the emulator.
If I recall properly, the only time the potential outcome will change is if the int32 at 0x02000008 changes. So watch that in the memory viewer.
That changes every single frame... Are you sure you don't mean 0x02000010?
I do mean 0x02000008 as an int32, so it includes 0x02000010.
It depends upon the room's needs. For example, the room to the left of the first mermen room, and then to the right of that room, you'll see that it dosn't change unless (I believe) a fish causes it to change, or your weapon.
Thought I'd give a little update, so here's my progress on the any% so far (i hate forcing souls sometimes, so I decided to do this one first, not to mention gaming season is upcoming), goes up to the entrance of the floating garden now.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Quick update:
-not dead, just swamped with work
-will try to get some work done on this this weekend and over thanksgiving break
-am still at skeleton knights, but i know how to read the memory thing... sorta. i just need hoe to clarify what his equation is for converting the memory read into a comparable number. nitsuja said he had looked into it, but i am told that he made no progress on that.
-i am still contemplating whether or not the boss manticore is worth fighting, rather than the garden manticore. discuss.
Joined: 3/29/2005
Posts: 229
Location: The boonies.
Ooh, good question. The fights should last similar amounts of time, so that's not really a factor. I suppose it comes down to earlier possiblity of glitch use vs. wasting less time to get the soul.
I dunno. Isn't the first useful place to use the glitch in the Gardens anyway? If so, it'd probably be better to wait until the garden.
Thought I'd give a little update, so here's my progress on the any% so far (i hate forcing souls sometimes, so I decided to do this one first, not to mention gaming season is upcoming), goes up to the entrance of the floating garden now.
why dont you do that slide+jump since the very beginning of the game?
<small>My big signature was cleared by admin; i should read <a href="http://tasvideos.org/ForumRules.html">forum rules</a>. But... who does?</small>
gaming season is upon me, thus my run is effectively on ice until christmas.
yes, it sucks, i know, but damn i cant resist all these games that are calling out to me saying 'BUY ME NOW', not to mention mario kart ds online -_-.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
quietkane wrote:
Ooh, good question. The fights should last similar amounts of time, so that's not really a factor. I suppose it comes down to earlier possiblity of glitch use vs. wasting less time to get the soul.
I dunno. Isn't the first useful place to use the glitch in the Gardens anyway? If so, it'd probably be better to wait until the garden.
As it stands, there are two ways this could work:
1) I do the first glitch, and then go one room to the right (as opposed to left) and fight the Manticore at a pretty low level. However, he will give me a nice exp bonus. I don't know if you can even get this soul in this fight, so... yeah.
or
2) I take my path now, which is to reach where the first glitch needing a rush soul is (the garden). I plan on going one screen to the left to grab a Black Belt from a Werewolf, since I need the STR bonus. I could go one more room to the left and kill that Manticore, which will be a faster kill and won't lag me up with the soul-sphere thingy.
That is my plight.
Zurreco, where exactly are the glitches going to take you? i know you can end up in the Chaos realm from the Chapel, and that the garden one can take you to the arena OR the top floor (they can all take you different places; chapel can also take you to the underground resevoir). i just was wondering where the other warps/glitches will take you?
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
The warps I will take are as follows:
The castle entrance to the warp room in the lower chapel.
--This takes me from right before meeting Graham to the room right after the first Manticore
The floating garden to the arena.
--This takes me from the upper part of the main room in the garden (where the Red Crow is) to the vertical shaft in the arena before the Gladiators.
From the arena to the top floor.
--This takes me from the vertical shaft in the arena mentioned above to the lowest part of the top floor. I will not venture any higher up.
The upper chapel to the chaotic realm.
--This goes from the area in the chapel with the wooden sword directly to the door to chaos.
Every other warp either sets me back or can't be done effectively. For example, I could go straight from the castle entrance to the shaft right before the arena, which is a huge jump, but I won't have malphas or hippogriff, so I'd be stuck there.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Sorry, I didn´t mean to offend you. I knew your name, it was just a typo.
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