P.S. Apologies about bad video quality, i have no idea how to do encode with higher resolution than 320x224 in Gens :(
AVI recordings from emulators will always encode at the standard console resolution. You have to manually resize the video using AviSynth or some other video editor.
Mmmm... that's how it is works!! After some testing in video editor i finally able to do something with more or less watchable quality. Fixed video in my previous post. Thanks Samsara.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
World 3 will not going fast, those swimming levels just killing me
Water? Mr. Nutz is not pleased. Such sad squirrel.
And i still have doubts about best health/weapon management... In other words i still on testing phase.
Btw small positive news: Not only latest map, but all maps except first two worlds can be skipped. It save ~10 sec per each skipped map (x4).
It workable in both game versions, for example try to press A or B buttons approximately at frame #25520 in yours movie :)
This game sync very good. So actually with using your old input in TAS-movie-editor easily possible to save over 40 seconds with minimal effort. But i am working in genesis version (parallelly with 100% i also re-doing any% too).
I like genesis version, so i not interested to improve SNES even if it is infinitely easier to do than slowly re-do everything from zero in genesis. And anyway some other "not-so-easy" improvements exist, so i think not worth to touch SNES version.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Improvement for any% run in World 3: In last swimming level before Mr. Octopus boss i found sweet OoB route:
Link to video
It is few seconds faster than normal route and also it allowed avoid lots of coins :)
Besides it now i have 2 extra not used nuts-ammo and i can go back to kitchen to use them to kill lamp which should save yet several frames.
P.S. With modifications it is applicable to 100% run too.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Heh great improvement. That it's faster is good but that OoB trick would make the run more entertaining :) Did you manage to use the script or find another way of checking for 'holes' in ceilings?
Did you manage to use the script or find another way of checking for 'holes' in ceilings?
To check "holes" i use this primitive technique - in tas-movie-editor i multiply pasted simple input sequence:
[10 x "B"] [20 empty frames] [1x "->"]... [10 x "B"] [20 empty frames] [1x "->"] ... and ect to infinite.
And then watch result at fast forward.
I checked ceilings at W4L3, but without success :( Seems in genesis version this zip is not exist. Or i doing something wrong...
DaTeL237 wrote:
W5L1: turn left, use the floating platforms and take teleport to swimmer-upgrade! {up to 15 seconds}
I still at World 3, but decided to to finally test this warp-route in World 5:
Link to video
It is faster, but benefit at time is laughably small, it is only about half of second, not 15 seconds. But anyway it is improvement, and new route look alot cooler than normal, at least i think so :)
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
I did a small break, but now i came back to Mr. Nutz and finally finished World 3:
Link to video
It definitely was hardest part of game.
Health and hazelnuts are very limited in this world. To use hazelnut-weapon or not to use? To get damage or avoid or wait? Each such small decision has very long lasting effects. Nearly each swimming had very thin boundary between life and death which will affect to Health/Hazelnuts management. And without deep optimization it was impossible to make ideal decision, sometimes 1-2 frames can make difference. Fortunately game is sync perfectly, so was possible to make changes in the previous level without redoing next one.
Also coin#198 was notable pain in ass. To get this coin and catch the rope simultaneously, require a lot of sufferings. Long time i failed to do it, i was close to surrender, but after some reflections i decided tried to plan of last hope before give up: Near with coin#167 i dived deeper (lost 2 frames) and got 2 hazelnuts instead of one (second nut is necessary for next level) and used this extra shot to kill electric fish and to use corner-boost above it (+ 5 frames). These distressful 3 frames miraculously helped to succeed and catch rope :)
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Wow, Nuts% seems to be quite crazy hilarious category. I look forward to see it! Good luck.
Btw, since you working on SNES version - probably worth to update any% run for SNES? At least 30 seconds can be easily saved just by map skips between levels.
You can re-sync old input in most of levels (and to keep DaTeL237 as co-author) and just re-do a few rare levels there real gameplay changes are necessary to time.
Edit: Oh, damn you are work on BizHawk so you can't use his old input from Snes9X...
Upd: I watched your movie-file and made some short tests. Sadly to say it... but your optimisation is quite sloppy.
Arbitrary goal combined with weak optimisation => i afraid chances to be accepted are close to zero.
However goal itself is quite interesting, so i hope you will continue this project. I still look forward to see it.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
I still have snes9x-rr. I can look into it when I have some time to spare.
There are some things I don't understand about this game. Like what is corner boosting? I tried having jump land on corner of stuff but it does not seen I gain some speed/pixels x)
EDIT: I don't mind if you have some remark to make it better. I am not that far into it yet. So I don't really mind redoing it.
There are some things I don't understand about this game. Like what is corner boosting?
C'mon, just use your head! I mean Mr.Nutz head:
Skarsnik wrote:
I don't mind if you have some remark to make it better. I am not that far into it yet. So I don't really mind redoing it.
At current point no sense to provide list of mistakes. Problem is - that the first levels are so simple, but you managed to make so many mistakes... It mean that with more complicated levels, routes and optimisation opportunities amount of flaws will be uncountable.
I recommend to continue this movie as test-run to very end to see full picture. And only when try to make properly optimized version.
By the way, how many nuts in this game?
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
No idea for the amount of nuts. My only previous work on this was a rta run done with save state to route it. But I only reached the first boss. (I had to redo it a lot of it because I missed lot of nuts xD)
I generally stream when I TAS. on twitch.tv/skarsnikus
Le_Hulz pointed me some mistakes already.
But I probably overlooked lot of things, since I always assume jumping vs running on the ground is the same. It's the first time I work on a platformer
EDIT :
I tried to found where are the hitbox of monster. I think I found where the spawn are defined. But I only found one memory address (around 592) that hold the "current" enemy being tracked (that not even the closest to you) and I only get one X/Y value, netheir the width/height of the hitbox.
Alright. The TAS is slowy moving. I get some help from Nethr4 on Twitch to figure hitbox of enemies/nuts/coins. I need to redo some part of 1-3 when TASstudio will keep crashing on me. Vertical level are quite tricky.
Here is a preview with the lua script running. (it stop in the middle of 2-1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AExRTECbPeU
The script can be found here https://gist.github.com/Skarsnik/aa9d6a0f5005ca18502f
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Skarsnik wrote:
Alright. The TAS is slowy moving. I get some help from Nethr4 on Twitch to figure hitbox of enemies/nuts/coins. I need to redo some part of 1-3 when TASstudio will keep crashing on me. Vertical level are quite tricky.
Here is a preview with the lua script running. (it stop in the middle of 2-1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AExRTECbPeU
The script can be found here https://gist.github.com/Skarsnik/aa9d6a0f5005ca18502f
Surely interesting to see the hitboxes, but I'm wondering how it helps to make the TAS. For me hitting/avoiding enemies was mostly a matter of trial and error (e.g. when to start jumping)
I imagine it would be more useful to find and draw 'hitboxes' of the terrain. With the goal of more easily finding (seeing!) potential shortcuts
Archanfel wrote:
I checked ceilings at W4L3, but without success :( Seems in genesis version this zip is not exist. Or i doing something wrong...
I finally did a short video on the zip :D
I used the LUA script for re-jumping so I'm not sure if it's possible to do without cheats/lua :X
Link to video
I finally did a short video on the zip :D
I used the LUA script for re-jumping so I'm not sure if it's possible to do without cheats/lua :X
Oh, very nice!!! I guess with help of bats it should be possible without cheats :)
Can please tell exact pixel position of hole in the ceiling? (or provide movie file if possible).
@Skarsnik
I look forward your progress. Second stage should be very fun for routing. I still doubt that Nuts% it acceptable category, but for April's submissions it should be very nice shot.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Archanfel wrote:
DaTeL237 wrote:
I finally did a short video on the zip :D
I used the LUA script for re-jumping so I'm not sure if it's possible to do without cheats/lua :X
Oh, very nice!!! I guess with help of bats it should be possible without cheats :)
Can please tell exact pixel position of hole in the ceiling? (or provide movie file if possible).
I reproduced it in several spots so it looks like it isn't a specific spot but just the whole ceiling.
Also I now realize that the way it's done (with LUA cheating) is not very consistent so perhaps the same kinds of zip is found in more places
I reproduced it in several spots so it looks like it isn't a specific spot but just the whole ceiling.
You're right, i manage to replicate it (with your LUA cheat) in any place of ceiling in this level.
Another question is it possible to do without cheats or not... It not so easy as i expected...
But probably in place with low ceiling some chances to set up similar condition exist. I will keep trying.Update: I successfully achieve zip in W4L3 without using cheats!!! :)
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Surely interesting to see the hitboxes, but I'm wondering how it helps to make the TAS. For me hitting/avoiding enemies was mostly a matter of trial and error (e.g. when to start jumping)
I imagine it would be more useful to find and draw 'hitboxes' of the terrain. With the goal of more easily finding (seeing!) potential shortcuts
Well, it less trial and error mostly. I know when I will get hit (and on the spider it gives me the first vulnerable frame for example)
Also it gets updated for http://imgur.com/6iAbKGt :) (still at the same url linked)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Skarsnik wrote:
DaTeL237 wrote:
Surely interesting to see the hitboxes, but I'm wondering how it helps to make the TAS. For me hitting/avoiding enemies was mostly a matter of trial and error (e.g. when to start jumping)
I imagine it would be more useful to find and draw 'hitboxes' of the terrain. With the goal of more easily finding (seeing!) potential shortcuts
Well, it less trial and error mostly. I know when I will get hit (and on the spider it gives me the first vulnerable frame for example)
Also it gets updated for http://imgur.com/6iAbKGt :) (still at the same url linked)
I'm not sure I understand the image. What am I looking at? What are the green boxes inside the wall?
With the hitboxes vizualized... is it clear what happens when you turn around? I remember it's possible to 'hit' things earlier by facing backward to them.
Archanfel wrote:
Update: I successfully achieve zip in W4L3 without using cheats!!! :)
Great, well done! I guess the next step is to investigate the same technique in other places :D
I'm assuming that the zip is possible because the bat pushes MrNutz into the ceiling... going by that assumption I've modified the script to make it easier to search for similar zips.... Hold B for moon-jumping (still using the game's bound checking) and press X to 'teleport' slightly upward. In W4L3 it replicates the zip consistently so I hope it helps
JUMP_INDICATOR_WORD = 0x7e0066;
STATE_INDICATOR_BYTE = 0x7e006d;
Y_VALUE = 0x7e0039;
teleportButton="X";
teleportWasPressed = false;
while true do
local state = memory.readbyte(STATE_INDICATOR_BYTE);
local state2 = memory.readword(JUMP_INDICATOR_WORD);
local input = joypad.read(1);
if (input["B"] and state2>=0) then
memory.writeword(JUMP_INDICATOR_WORD, 100);
memory.writebyte(STATE_INDICATOR_BYTE, 1);
end
if (input[teleportButton] and not teleportWasPressed) then
yVal = memory.readwordsigned(Y_VALUE);
higherVal = yVal - 0x10;
memory.writeword(Y_VALUE, higherVal);
end
teleportWasPressed = input[teleportButton];
snes9x.frameadvance();
end
Great, well done! I guess the next step is to investigate the same technique in other places :D
In W4L1 and W4L2 zips are also possible, but unfortunately useless, because of Mr.Nutz stuck at end and can't escape from cell to be able finish level.
In theory it can be usefull during sink stages, however there are no flying enemies so seems it's impossible to set up conditions without script/cheat. The same about igloo. So far no other ideas.
In any case, even if there are no other applications, zip in W4L3 itself is huge timesaver. Even non-optimised test showed that it easily can save over 1000+ frames.
SNES version require serious update. If also add cutscenes skips & several other known improvements it already would be about roughly ~1 minute ahead of published run.
We definitely need do v2 TAS for SNES this year.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Green box are nuts. You can see blank line going to every nuts left in the level.
Yes, when you turn around the hitbox turn too.
I don't know how zip work, but do you think it's possible to get out the crowded area that lead to the bonus stage in 2-1? I have to take 3 nuts here and do the useless bonus stage x)
I don't know how zip work, but do you think it's possible to get out the crowded area that lead to the bonus stage in 2-1? I have to take 3 nuts here and do the useless bonus stage x)
To avoid this useless bonus stage i recommend you to try lure birds down and use them as ladder to climb up after getting these three nuts.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Something interesting if you are redoing the TAS:
Skill points lost you 4 frames for each points.
After some research this score depend on your life (4 pt per life) count and healt left.
This value seems set when entering a boss fight (like for stage 1 it set at 64 when entering the spider stage)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Archanfel wrote:
SNES version require serious update. If also add cutscenes skips & several other known improvements it already would be about roughly ~1 minute ahead of published run.
We definitely need do v2 TAS for SNES this year.
:) I don't expect to be doing one so feel free to take the existing one and improve it :)
I did have a quick look for more zips that turned out not so quick :P
Idea for W2L2:
I'm not sure with the exact mechanics yet so not sure if it will be possible... it's kind of tricky to set up as well but I suppose that adds value to the TAS :D Once you're inside the walls just jump a few times to reach the final
W2L3:
I'm afraid it won't save any time however because you'd still need to climb up for the key.. which I think is slower on the right-hand part of the level
edit: Unless you can remain inside the wall (while zipping back and forth) while also jumping your way up... haven't tried
Skarsnik wrote:
Green box are nuts. You can see blank line going to every nuts left in the level.
Yes, when you turn around the hitbox turn too.
I don't know how zip work, but do you think it's possible to get out the crowded area that lead to the bonus stage in 2-1? I have to take 3 nuts here and do the useless bonus stage x)
Aha nice. Also good idea to have the lines. See previous post about the 3 nuts :)
Water? Mr. Nutz is not pleased. Such sad squirrel.
And i still have doubts about best health/weapon management... In other words i still on testing phase.
Btw small positive news: Not only latest map, but all maps except first two worlds can be skipped. It save ~10 sec per each skipped map (x4).
It workable in both game versions, for example try to press A or B buttons approximately at frame #25520 in yours movie :)
This game sync very good. So actually with using your old input in TAS-movie-editor easily possible to save over 40 seconds with minimal effort. But i am working in genesis version (parallelly with 100% i also re-doing any% too).
I like genesis version, so i not interested to improve SNES even if it is infinitely easier to do than slowly re-do everything from zero in genesis. And anyway some other "not-so-easy" improvements exist, so i think not worth to touch SNES version.
W2L3:
I'm afraid it won't save any time however because you'd still need to climb up for the key.. which I think is slower on the right-hand part of the level
edit: Unless you can remain inside the wall (while zipping back and forth) while also jumping your way up... haven't tried
