Stick Simulator Z is a game with pretty decent RNG.
Game objectives
Emulator used: Bizhawk 1.11.4
Takes damage to save time
Uses death to save time
Major glitch abuse
Heavy 'luck' manipulation
Download the game here. [dead link removed]
Route
Cave of Serenity
Get the axe.
Secluded Forest
On the way to the shop, our goal is to get enough gems to afford money for the shop trip, which we fulfill by getting 3 gems. On the way, start getting sticks for the campfire. We use the weapon recovery glitch here: getting hit while attacking cuts the recovery of the axe in half.
Town of Braintree
Go to the shop. Sell 3 gems to the liquor seller for 105$, then buy coffee. Get 1 healing kit (this was a mistake) and 1 fuel can for campfire.
Dead Wood
Our goal is to get the sniper rifle, which is gotten by killing the 6th horde. Once that is done, get killed by the laser sharks to deathwarp to Town of Braintree.
Town of Braintree (revisit)
Deathwarp here to get to Gold Rush Mines.
Braintree Forest
Gather some needed sticks on the way.
Gold Rush Mines
Get to second floor, then craft campfire, equip sniper rifle and execute campfire glitch by dying. Since we create a campfire underground (which fixes our spawn point) we get respawned upwards, into..
I.N.I.T Laboratory
Get respawned out of bounds in the final boss room. Since we are out of bounds, we have to use the sniper rifle to kill him. Since the sniper rifle shoots through wall, we can kill him easily and end the game.
Comments
This submission is probably going to get beaten very quickly. Putting it up is not the best decision, as it is simply the raw winner movie.
Samsara: Setting this to delayed while the frame wars are underway.
To be honest, you should try to optimize this before submitting.
This is a game that is going to end up in the Vault, so as it stands now, this is going to be rejected for being sloppy.
I would put the usual "Welcome to TASVideos <username>" speech here, but I think everyone should know the rules of this site.
Warning: Might glitch to creditsI will finish this ACE soon as possible
(or will I?)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6438
Location: The land down under.
Why? xy2_, why did you submit this?
I know the "Oh it's faster than Tompa." Does it mean it's still submittable in the current state of only being ran for 4 hours? No.
TAS wasn't entertaining. A Meh will come frome me.
Will also use my post for any, if any, frame wars come, even though it should've been revised beforehand.
6:49.61 - Submission
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
This is most likely not going to be the run that will make it through the publication process. As in, yeah, there will probably be a frame war and I would participate in it if not for the RNG hell... And as in, the RTA runner was barely 2 seconds behind this run so it doesn't stand out enough.
Meh for now.
This is most likely not going to be the run that will make it through the publication process. As in, yeah, there will probably be a frame war and I would participate in it if not for the RNG hell... And as in, the RTA runner was barely 2 seconds behind this run so it doesn't stand out enough.
Meh for now.
My sentiments exactly. I don't recall exactly what the rules state on different versions, but now that the competition is over, I would probably continue working on it if work moved to the original version over the AGDQ version because I'd rip my hair out over RNG otherwise. But again, I don't know if that's allowed now so I'll just keep on poking around routing shenanigans with everyone else for now.
To be honest, you should try to optimize this before submitting.
This is a game that is going to end up in the Vault, so as it stands now, this is going to be rejected for being sloppy.
I would put the usual "Welcome to TASVideos <username>" speech here, but I think everyone should know the rules of this site.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
I think submitting this is fine. It puts it out in public for people to start frame-warring and optimizing, which was going to happen regardless even if this had been a far more optimized submission. The fastest campfire run I know of is 5 seconds faster than this, so perhaps that should be the first goal for the framewar (I'd post it here, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to).
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Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
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Location: Brookline, MA
Samsara wrote:
I think submitting this is fine. It puts it out in public for people to start frame-warring and optimizing, which was going to happen regardless even if this had been a far more optimized submission. The fastest campfire run I know of is 5 seconds faster than this, so perhaps that should be the first goal for the framewar (I'd post it here, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to).
I agree. A frame war is in order for this run. Otherwise, it is not well enough optimized for publication yet. I will take a look at the current file right now.
Edit: Indeed, it can be slightly optimized on movememt, even if just a few frames. I saved a frame exiting from the beginning room already.
If there are any major optimizations possible, then it is most likely in how the zombies are approached. In particular, to have them always push the hero in a favorable direction, and in the room where multiple sharks are killed, to reach every zombie just as it spawns in.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
If I were judging this, I would reject it, because it's quite clear that there's ample room for improvement.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 11/14/2011
Posts: 68
Location: Brookline, MA
caitsith2 wrote:
This run should be specifically in the vault mainly because it is the run featured in AGDQ2016.
I agree.
Edit:
I will have to come back to tweeking this TAS in a few hours, since I have to go tutor a student, but after selecting the axe and exiting the menu, I am 5 frames ahead. So the submitted TAS has it's slightly sloppy areas, but otherwise, the team has done quite well for a four hour time limit.
I am wondering which version of the game is preferred, the GDQ modded one or the original? Would the real RNG in the original allow for a faster run due to more optimal farming?
VVVV I prefer the original as well, in fact even if it turns out to be slower. But either way I think this question should be answered before any frame war type stuff gets going, so no one wastes their time.
EDIT: or at least give this one a "GDQ Edition" branch to distinguish it.
My sentiments exactly. I don't recall exactly what the rules state on different versions, but now that the competition is over, I would probably continue working on it if work moved to the original version over the AGDQ version because I'd rip my hair out over RNG otherwise. But again, I don't know if that's allowed now so I'll just keep on poking around routing shenanigans with everyone else for now.
RNG is still manipulable and isn't particularly difficult to do. The most important RNG target is drops and I've written a script to show pending drops - this can calculate future drops per enemy index as well if the script is extended. It just isn't as "free" for a TAS as the prior version, that's all.
My sentiments exactly. I don't recall exactly what the rules state on different versions, but now that the competition is over, I would probably continue working on it if work moved to the original version over the AGDQ version because I'd rip my hair out over RNG otherwise. But again, I don't know if that's allowed now so I'll just keep on poking around routing shenanigans with everyone else for now.
RNG is still manipulable and isn't particularly difficult to do. The most important RNG target is drops and I've written a script to show pending drops - this can calculate future drops per enemy index as well if the script is extended. It just isn't as "free" for a TAS as the prior version, that's all.
Ah okay, being just a bit of a challenge instead of completely up in the air is better then. I've been keeping up with your script versions and it's coming along very nicely, thanks a ton for it! :)
I'm glad that this submission is on the site, so that people can look at it and see what the winning GDQ run was like.
I don't think it should be published as a movie. Let it be rejected; it's clearly improvable.
(There's a glitch that I couldn't make work, but which I got far enough with to make it seem like it should work: if you go two screens east of the final boss, move one screen to the west, and reset 42 frames later, there is a 1 in 65536 chance that you will be able to glitch into the final boss room by holding left after reloading the game, and a 65535 in 65536 chance that you will end up deleting the save file. I didn't manage to get the luck manipulation done, but these odds are easily in range of what's viable to manipulate in a TAS. Things that affect randomness here include the background music, global frame counter, and the player's inventory.)
I'm glad that this submission is on the site, so that people can look at it and see what the winning GDQ run was like.
I don't think it should be published as a movie. Let it be rejected; it's clearly improvable.
(There's a glitch that I couldn't make work, but which I got far enough with to make it seem like it should work: if you go two screens east of the final boss, move one screen to the west, and reset 42 frames later, there is a 1 in 65536 chance that you will be able to glitch into the final boss room by holding left after reloading the game, and a 65535 in 65536 chance that you will end up deleting the save file. I didn't manage to get the luck manipulation done, but these odds are easily in range of what's viable to manipulate in a TAS. Things that affect randomness here include the background music, global frame counter, and the player's inventory.)
How did you come up with that number? How did anyone even find this if it's that rare? It this intended? 0_o
Also I'm not sure about whether or not it's "worthwhile" to publish a game that was made for speedrunning. I mean, wouldn't that allow potentially future people (for potentially another game like this) to deliberately code something they can exploit?
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
jlun2 wrote:
Also I'm not sure about whether or not it's "worthwhile" to publish a game that was made for speedrunning.
The game wasn't made for speedrunning. It was an existing game that was modified to benefit speedrunners, but the game itself wasn't explicitly made for speedrunning.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
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Posts: 68
Location: Brookline, MA
The extra frames saved on the menu was a false alarm, because of the axe not being equipped. However, once I fixed that, I saved 5 frames on the first set of zombies by carefully manipulating them to move so that after I killed two of them, during the collection of the second pellet, allowing the third zombie to bump me rightward.
So I am already 7 frames ahead. Given the number of rooms traveled in the winning submission, I predict at least about a few seconds can be cut.
I am looking forward to the decision of which version of the game we should go for.
Edit:
Now 71 Frames ahead, due to change in the second fight with zombies. I am not too worried about having more health than in the submitted TAS at this stage of the game.
Oh no, not another suboptimal GDQ competition submission turning into a frame war thread. This isn't the right place to do so.
I see some people already commenting about shaving frames here and there. Ridiculous. There's the issue of the undisclosed infinite money glitch that the game developer mentioned during the competition. I also heard keylie on the French restream comment about a possible alternate route using 2 campfires instead of one.
We've only used public notes from the CSAW CTF without much original research at this point. How many of you played through the game normally once to see what it has to offer? Do you know where the secrets are, or how many there are? Do you realize that the game was designed to be reverse-engineered with obfuscated functions? Do you know what the beneficial bugs intentionally left by the developers are beyond the inventory overflow glitch?
If you answered "no" to any of these questions, well you're in luck: there's a whole game for you to discover.
The money glitch (or at least one of them) involves the Buyback feature being exploited with some (all?) firearms. Basically you are able to sell your firearms and then buy them back with the Buyback feature for free. This has been documented and tested. It's not like a quick overflow or anything like that.
Ok. took a closer look at the buyback code, and spotted the error.
PROC add_buyback_item
; Save sold item into buyback list, first move previous entries down
ldy #5
movebuyback:
lda buyback_items - 1, y
sta buyback_items, y
lda buyback_price_low - 1, y
sta buyback_price_low, y
lda buyback_price_mid - 1, y
sta buyback_price_mid, y
lda buyback_price_high - 1, y
sta buyback_price_high, y
dey
bne movebuyback
lda sell_items, x
sta buyback_items
lda sell_price_low, x
sta buyback_price_low
lda sell_price_mid, x
sta buyback_price_mid
lda sell_price_mid, x
sta buyback_price_mid
ldy buyback_count
cpy #6
beq maxbuyback
iny
sty buyback_count
maxbuyback:
rts
.endproc
The last sell_price_mid / buyback_price_mid should have actually been sell_price_high / buyback_price_high.
As a result, since buyback_price_high is ALWAYS initialized as 0 on startup, and never adjusted to correct value on sell, if the sell price was at least 1xx gold, the buyback price will end up as 0xx gold. :)
End result is you can buy SMG for 150 gold, sell it for 100 gold, buy it back for free, because its sell_price_mid and sell_price_low are both 0.
classic copy/paste related bug. :)
Sadly I was unable to complete my run in time for several reasons. Part of my problem was that I spent too much time thinking about the ACE route. I still think the ACE route might be faster, but I have a problem
The analysis page suggested using the fire puzzle at 0x302, this means overflowing your inventory with an SMG that has 2 (or in my case 0) bullets.
With the buyback glitch I can get to 29 items with 15 normal items and 14 guns, but when I equip an SMG and start shooting it always takes ammo from the first slot. I would need it to take ammo from the last slot for this to work. Any ideas?
I could get 6 more items probably, but I'm afraid this would be too slow
Sadly I was unable to complete my run in time for several reasons. Part of my problem was that I spent too much time thinking about the ACE route. I still think the ACE route might be faster, but I have a problem
The analysis page suggested using the fire puzzle at 0x302, this means overflowing your inventory with an SMG that has 2 (or in my case 0) bullets.
With the buyback glitch I can get to 29 items with 15 normal items and 14 guns, but when I equip an SMG and start shooting it always takes ammo from the first slot. I would need it to take ammo from the last slot for this to work. Any ideas?
I could get 6 more items probably, but I'm afraid this would be too slow
You could just use the first slot one and then swap it down to the last slot.
