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Posted: 9/24/2005 11:16 PM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
If Famtasia has a Cheat function that allows you to change RAM values like FCEU does, you could just change the value of address 0671 to get triforce pieces. Zero means no triforce pieces, 255 means all of them, and the numbers in between signify different combinations of triforce pieces. It's pretty simple to determine which value will give you which pieces after you've played around with the values a bit.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 9/24/2005 11:42 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Here's another save state, I have the power bracelet now and I'm on the same screen as the guy who made the vid started from. http://rapidshare.de/files/5496161/Zelda_no_Densetsu_1_-_The_Hyrule_Fantasy__J_.fr1.html Edit: I haven't really done much testing to prove this, but after studying the vid a bit more, I'll make an educated guess about how it works. You can't abuse this glitch to just get taken wherever you want. When you use the whistle, you get taken to the right from the screen you're on to the screen with the labyrinth. With this glitch, you get taken to the same part of the map as you would have been taken, except that the whirlwind didn't get a chance to take you right a screen, so instead you'll be one screen to the left of wherever you would have been taken, except that it'll look and feel like the screen you were on when you blew the whistle. If you enter a cave or stairway after doing the glitch on the screen that it looks like you're on, you'll enter whatever cave or stairway is on the screen that you're really on. If there is no cave or stairway on that screen, it'll just take you to that screen and create a cave or stairway on the screen that leads nowhere. The only thing in the vid that doesn't support this theory is how he entered level 8, it just doesn't make sense why that happened. The only explanation I can think of is that for no reason at all, the programmers decided to put a second entrance to level 8 on the screen to the left of the normal entrance, but you can't normally access it because there's nothing bombable or burnable on that screen. Edit: Oh yeah, and if you're wondering how he got taken back to the start, that was when he warped to the screen left of level 3. Then he walked down from there, so it took him off the map, which apparently causes you to reappear at the starting screen.
Posted: 9/25/2005 12:16 AM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
I think that's a pretty good idea about the general result of the glitch. Now that I think about it, Link was teleported one screen to the left of a dungeon most of the times I did it, too. There were a few times in which this wasn't the case, though. For example, I've gotten Link teleported from the starting screen to the upper left graveyard screen. He's also been teleported from the starting screen to the screen left of the fourth dungeon, which happens more frequently iirc.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 9/25/2005 12:29 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
There were a few times in which this wasn't the case, though. For example, I've gotten Link teleported from the starting screen to the upper left graveyard screen. Upper-left graveyard screen? Were you there immediately, or did you first have to walk left, which would make more sense because being warped left of level 6 + walking a screen left = 2 screens left of level 6? If you were there immediately, did you try walking left from that screen, and if so, did it take you back to the starting screen? Btw, I should mention that this will, without a doubt, save time in a speedrun, because of the huge shortcuts you can take, for example you can get to level 6 really quickly by warping to the screen to the left of level 7. Anyway, time for someone to make a TAS of this! Would this be the first TAS of an FDS game? Would a TAS of an FDS game be possible? Can an fmv/fcm file store information about changing the disk side?
Posted: 9/25/2005 12:30 AM
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adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3570)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
TASer of 2010 NES TASer of 2010 DS TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 NES TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2008 Funny TAS of 2008 TASer of 2007 NES TASer of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
The only explanation I can think of is that for no reason at all, the programmers decided to put a second entrance to level 8 on the screen to the left of the normal entrance, but you can't normally access it because there's nothing bombable or burnable on that screen.
They DID put one on the screen to the left. The screen to the left has the level 7 quest 2 entrance (which is just level 8 of the 1st quest, changed). My guess is that to save space, that screen is programmed to go to the level, but They just didn't put an entrance to it. Hope that makes sense It also might make sense about the graveyard thing, since in quest 2, the graveyard contains level 6
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Posted: 9/25/2005 12:32 AM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1415)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
We have a few FDS games already. Zelda II, Eggerland, I 'm sure one or two others...
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 9/25/2005 12:44 AM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
Michael Fried wrote:
Were you there immediately, or did you first have to walk left, which would make more sense because being warped left of level 6 + walking a screen left = 2 screens left of level 6?
Oh, yeah, I walked left. So I guess it does take you one screen to the right of a dungeon. One thing to keep in mind while using this trick is the nature of the terrain to the right of whichever dungeon you want to reach. For example, you can get stuck in the trees on the right of the screen with level 8, depending on your vertical position when you leave the screen after teleporting. If you push a directional arrow, however, you'll be able to use the recorder to get out of the trees. For some reason, you can only use items if you face up or down when you're stuck.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 9/25/2005 12:56 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
and create a cave or stairway on the screen that leads nowhere I just tried this out by warping to the screen to the left of level 3 and no cave or stairway was created, though a cave was created when I warped left of level 1. I'm not sure why it would happen in one case and not the other case. It also creates a stairway when you warp left of level 2 as we saw in the vid. One more thing I should mention is that I don't think you ever get stuck if you do the glitch and then enter a cave or stairway to get to the screen, you can only get stuck if you do a screen transition from the "fake" screen. So I guess it does take you one screen to the right of a dungeon. Don't you mean one screen to the left of a dungeon?
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:06 AM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
Yeah, sorry, to the left. And you're right about the possibility of getting stuck only if you do a screen transition. I guess I should write more clearly.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:11 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
If you enter a cave or stairway after doing the glitch on the screen that it looks like you're on, you'll enter whatever cave or stairway is on the screen that you're really on. Confirmed. I just warped left of level 4, and entered a cave and it took me to the shop.
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:15 AM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
I also got that to work, with the level 5 entrance and the cave that has the magical sword in the first quest. Just in case this hasn't been answered, I'm pretty sure you need the magical boomerang, since the normal one can't reach the correct distance for the glitch to work.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:16 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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It doesn't work with the candle or anything, does it?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:18 AM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
What do you mean?
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:20 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Call the tornado but bump into a flame? It's probably been tried, but...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:25 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
It doesn't work with the candle or anything, does it? I don't know, but I'm about to find out... I also got that to work, with the level 5 entrance and the cave that has the magical sword in the first quest. Just in case this hasn't been answered, I'm pretty sure you need the magical boomerang, since the normal one can't reach the correct distance for the glitch to work. Well don't be too sure until you've tried it out. Until someone figures out what causes the glitch, we can't make any assumptions like that. Edit: I can't get it to work with the candle.
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:30 AM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
Well, I just tried the candle idea with the red candle. I threw out the fire, then switched to the recorder and blew it. The whirlwind took Link through the fire without any glitch, as far as I could tell. I also tried blowing the recorder first, then using the candle. This also did not work. BTW, I've already tried it with the normal boomerang, and it didn't work. Maybe if you time it correctly so that the boomerang will be around the middle of the screen when you reach it with the whirlwind, it might work, since that's the general area in which it normally drops you.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:37 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
BTW, I've already tried it with the normal boomerang, and it didn't work. Maybe if you time it correctly so that the boomerang will be around the middle of the screen when you reach it with the whirlwind, it might work, since that's the general area in which it normally drops you. Well then you haven't tried it enough. Try timing it just like what you said. Can you post a save state so I can try it also?
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:39 AM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
I'm using FCEUXD for these experiments. Do you want a save state from that?
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:59 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
I'm using FCEUXD for these experiments. Do you want a save state from that? What is that? Another emulator? Sure, upload the save state, but also link me to the emulator.
Posted: 9/25/2005 2:06 AM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
It's a special debugger version of FCEU. I'm using it because the recording versions don't run the rom correctly. Unfortunately, you can't slow down or speed up the emulation in FCEUXD, and there's no frame advance. Do you still want the save state?
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 9/25/2005 2:27 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Yes, I want the save state, I said that already.
Posted: 9/25/2005 2:43 AM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
Okay, here's a file with two save states. It also contains a cheat file that you need in order to have the necessary items and a text document of which RAM addresses to modify to get certain items. If you run it without the cheat file, you'll probably have to get the boomerang and flute and some triforce pieces. BTW, I figured out that it will work in the recording versions of FCEU if you open the rom and then load a save state.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 9/25/2005 4:07 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
One more thing I forgot to mention, that's probably obvious but I guess it's worth mentioning anyway, is that you can get stuck by being on top of something while the boomerang knocks you out of the whirlwind.
Posted: 9/25/2005 4:42 AM
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Ramzi
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
I still have a very incomplete idea of how this works. My intuition is telling me that there should be a limited number of locations to warp to, rather than being able to warp ANYWHERE on the overworld and underworld, because the flute only warps you to levels you've already beaten. If we can go to the places up/down/left/right of the levels we've beaten, or any underworld shops/warps/secrets, we should mark all of these locations on the overworld map from GameFAQs. There shouldn't be that many. Then, we would need to recalculate the shortest travel across the levels based on these new warp points. There exists the possibility that we would need to do the levels in a different order, even if it means walking more in the beginning, to make up more time with the glitch warps later. Once again I'm onboard to help in the mental anguish of calculating this.
Posted: 9/25/2005 5:02 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Ramzi, I already figured out exactly how it works, read my other posts in this topic. The only thing we still don't know is why it works (why does the boomerang knock you out of the whirlwind and why does it only work if you throw the boomerang from the far left part of the screen and the boomerang hits you in the middle of the screen?). There's the exact same number of places you can warp to as normal (1 place if you have 1 piece of triforce, 2 if you have 2 pieces...), you just warp to the screen 1 to the left of where you would have warped to, but it still looks and feels like you didn't warp at all, until you do a screen transition. Edit: Oh yeah, one more thing I should say. When someone makes a TAS of this, I assume it'll be in addition to the current TAS, not replace it, correct?
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