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Posted: 8/7/2015 8:51 PM
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zeromus
Editor, Emulator Coder
Joined: 8/7/2008
Posts: 1156
No, No, and No. Throw me some more softballs. I guess I should be kind and elaborate 1. No; Portability comes at the expense of quality 2. No; we don't care about hypothetical patent issues. We chose c# because we like it, and because we don't like C, C++, or Java for doing user interface and architectural work (or anything at all, in Java's case), and because in principle a lot of it could be machine translated to another language although the project has grown so much, it would be impractical for a lot of it... 3. No; our goal is to rewrite as much free code as we can, and make as much non-free code appear in a useful frontend environment as we can. Deleting the non-free gains nothing for anyone although of course if someone delivered us a suitable free replacement for any non-free code we'd be all over that shit. We _have_ gone to great lengths to write free replacements in a few instances including the entire c# genesis core which isnt just quite there yet. I'd have to check for some of the other c# cores we've written, which ones supplanted badly-licensed alternative emulators. Note that with our definitions, GPL is non-free and badly-licensed. Badly licensed is just one of many defects, too. The other is generally an unbearable user interface which is inextricable from the core emulation code...
Posted: 8/7/2015 11:53 PM
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Sappharad
Joined: 3/11/2012
Posts: 149
Location: WI
To add to what zeromus said, most people don't have the resources to test anything except Windows, nor do they care. For a project that relies entirely on people who do this in their spare time, adding the complication of making something work everywhere would only hurt the possibility of more people helping out. If it's a pain in the ass to develop for, nobody's going to want to do it. Having said that, they've already done a really great job making the backend portable. Everything on the C# side that isn't the user interface builds and runs fine outside of Windows with no modifications required. It's perfectly ready for someone to write a proper, native UI for other platforms, it just needs people to spend the time to do so. They already did plenty of refactoring to ensure that would be possible, and it's the right way to do it. If you look at other multi-platform emulators like Kega, that's how it was done there. The UI for Kega is native on OS X and Windows, but the backend is the same. It's right approach to take when trying to provide a good experience for everyone. What I've done so far for the OS X port is pretty lazy. I wanted an OS X version, but didn't really want to spend time writing the UI from scratch so I kept trying to stick band-aids all over the existing Windows UI to make it work on OS X, and to some extent it kind of works on Linux too. The current plan to write a new UI for these other platforms is the right approach, which is why I started that a few months ago. When it's far enough along, that code should be able to live in the same place as the Windows version, since the stuff that it will share (non-UI) is already portable. The last time I tested it, the new UI was working fine from the master branch with no changes to that code, which is kind of one of the things you're asking for. It's just a separate solution, which shares the existing backend projects. It's still much easier for me to roll new builds against the existing UI than it is to work on the new one, which is why this process is moving so slowly. I use the current builds to play games and sometimes watch .bkm movies, so I don't have a lot of motivation to re-implement stuff that already works even though it's a bit rough. I hope this gives a little bit of insight. If anyone's familiar with C# and wants to help out, that's always a good option. I'm trying to implement the new UI with the Eto Framework, which is a wrapper that translates to native UI's across Windows, Mac OS X and Linux. Coding is similar to using WinForms, but all of the UI is built by hand since there isn't a drag/drop designer like WinForm, and everything is organized using Layouts similar to how you would build a web page in HTML. So there's a bit of a learning curve for me, as I struggle to figure out how to make it behave the way I want to. The end result looks great on every platform, and it even does neat platform specific stuff like launching file open dialogs as sheets on OS X which is something I can't do with the current UI.
Posted: 8/9/2015 5:52 AM
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Danfun64
He/Him
Joined: 7/25/2007
Posts: 50
Well, I tried :P ATM I can't think of any more "curveballs" to "throw" at you, at least what directly relates to this specific thread.
Posted: 10/16/2015 4:41 AM
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Sappharad
Joined: 3/11/2012
Posts: 149
Location: WI
I added 1.11.3 to the first post. The OS X port supports Game controllers now, although it's kind of rough. An XBOX 360 controller works and maps fine, but when I try to configure a PS4 controller the D-Pad acts as if it's rotated clockwise by 45 degrees, making it difficult to map and use. And sometimes the application doesn't detect the controller, so you need to close the app, unplug + replug the controller, then relaunch BizHawk and it might detect the controller. You can't plug/unplug controllers while the program is running, although I'll probably fix that in the future. Progress on the new UI is still moving along extremely slowly. Controller configuration dialog is pretty close to finally being done, it works now at least.
Posted: 10/16/2015 4:46 AM
Post subject: BizHawk and Crossover Linux
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dwangoAC
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
Exotic platforms TASer of 2015 Exotic platforms TASer of 2013
As an aside, for Blockout I did the entire run in BizHawk 1.11.1 in Crossover Linux, a paid-support variant of WINE which I have been an advocate of for many years. I had initially had difficulty getting BizHawk to run in this environment, but I discovered that installing all of the BizHawk prerequisites manually (DirectX runtime web installer, the Visual C++ redistributable, and the Windows Imaging Component) along with the Courier New font was all that was required. CPU usage was far lower using this method compared to running BizHawk inside of VMWare Workstation and I was pleased with the stability, although setting the font to 180 DPI did cause some UI elements to become truncated. I look forward to a day when BizHawk runs natively but for now this solution meets my needs.
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Posted: 10/16/2015 4:55 AM
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TAG
He/Him
Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
So sadly still no N69 support :( also thankyou so much for making the emulator less slow at loading things. thank you guys and girls so much.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Posted: 10/16/2015 2:38 PM
Post subject: Re: BizHawk and Crossover Linux
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11469
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
dwangoAC wrote:
I look forward to a day when BizHawk runs natively
What do you mean? Some Linux/OSX-friendly toolkits?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 10/16/2015 5:47 PM
Post subject: Re: BizHawk and Crossover Linux
Quote
Sappharad
Joined: 3/11/2012
Posts: 149
Location: WI
feos wrote:
dwangoAC wrote:
I look forward to a day when BizHawk runs natively
What do you mean? Some Linux/OSX-friendly toolkits?
I would assume something like this: http://projects.sappharad.com/bizhawk_mac/bizhawk_linux_broken.png Screenshot is from the EtoHawk UI in the portable branch. Actually really very bad on Linux right now. I can't map all of my controller buttons without mono crashing and bringing down the entire app. And the picture of the controller on the right side of the dialog doesn't show up for some reason.
Posted: 10/16/2015 10:27 PM
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TAG
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Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
So just wondering guys. Does HawkBiz have compatibleity with PS3 controllers? I tried connecting one up last night and all I could do was jump shoot and enter my vehicle. Can't move and when I try to assign buttons it does nothing :( please help me guys.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Posted: 10/16/2015 10:30 PM
Quote
TAG
He/Him
Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
So just wondering guys. Does HawkBiz have compatibleity with PS3 controllers? I tried connecting one up last night and all I could do was jump shoot and enter my vehicle. Can't move and when I try to assign buttons it does nothing :( please help me guys.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Posted: 10/16/2015 10:43 PM
Post subject: Re: BizHawk and Crossover Linux
Quote
dwangoAC
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
Exotic platforms TASer of 2015 Exotic platforms TASer of 2013
Sappharad wrote:
feos wrote:
dwangoAC wrote:
I look forward to a day when BizHawk runs natively
What do you mean? Some Linux/OSX-friendly toolkits?
I would assume something like this: http://projects.sappharad.com/bizhawk_mac/bizhawk_linux_broken.png Screenshot is from the EtoHawk UI in the portable branch. Actually really very bad on Linux right now.
I'd love for EtoHawk to become usable but I couldn't get it to work so for now I'm literally using the official executable compiled for Windows inside of a bottle I created in Crossover Linux. It's not exactly "emulated" (WINE, the core component inside Crossover Linux, is a circular acronym for "WINE Is Not Emulation"), more like translated. It's definitely cheating, don't get me wrong, but it's better than the alternatives.
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Posted: 10/17/2015 4:20 PM
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Sappharad
Joined: 3/11/2012
Posts: 149
Location: WI
TAG wrote:
So just wondering guys. Does HawkBiz have compatibleity with PS3 controllers? I tried connecting one up last night and all I could do was jump shoot and enter my vehicle. Can't move and when I try to assign buttons it does nothing :( please help me guys.
PS3 controller does not function as a standard controller when plugged into a computer like the PS4 controller does. According to a quick google search, they might function over bluetooth but I haven't looked at that. The Steam controller also does not work for BizHawk on OS X yet, I can't even detect it as a controller. I contacted Valve abut it, they're aware of the issue and confirmed that their controller isn't recognized as a Gamepad on OS X yet and that will be fixed with a firmware update in the coming weeks. (Probably in time for the official launch in November.) I'll try to make sure it's supported correctly when they fix it.
Posted: 12/22/2015 8:18 AM
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TAG
He/Him
Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
whats going on here, it says there is a new version on my mac version of bizhawk which i want to personally call MacHawk ;) is it thinking of the PC version?
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Posted: 12/22/2015 1:19 PM
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hegyak
Editor
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 1466
Location: Not playing Puyo Tetris
TAG wrote:
whats going on here, it says there is a new version on my mac version of bizhawk which i want to personally call MacHawk ;) is it thinking of the PC version?
Due to how the Version Update notice page works, BizHawk for Mac, thinks "Update available."
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war. The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
Posted: 12/22/2015 1:20 PM
Quote
TAG
He/Him
Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
Ok
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Posted: 12/23/2015 12:08 AM
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Sappharad
Joined: 3/11/2012
Posts: 149
Location: WI
hegyak wrote:
TAG wrote:
whats going on here, it says there is a new version on my mac version of bizhawk which i want to personally call MacHawk ;) is it thinking of the PC version?
Due to how the Version Update notice page works, BizHawk for Mac, thinks "Update available."
What says there's an update? What version update page? The OS X build should be ready today or tomorrow. I merged everything over yesterday, just need to deal with the changes to native cores.
Posted: 12/23/2015 12:17 AM
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TAG
He/Him
Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
it's the 1.11.3 Mac revision, when i opened it last night it was like "hey MacHawk 1.11.4 has just come out, update to the latest version, then when i clicked on the link it took me to the PC download page instead of the Mac download page.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Posted: 12/23/2015 5:07 AM
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Sappharad
Joined: 3/11/2012
Posts: 149
Location: WI
TAG wrote:
it's the 1.11.3 Mac revision, when i opened it last night it was like "hey MacHawk 1.11.4 has just come out, update to the latest version, then when i clicked on the link it took me to the PC download page instead of the Mac download page.
Are you just referring to the website? The application itself doesn't have any sort of auto-update mechanism. I don't understand what's telling you to update. (Delaying 1.11.4 OS X build for another day or two. Want to see if I can get SNES working this time.)
Posted: 12/23/2015 10:00 AM
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TAG
He/Him
Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
Aww come on man. I just want to know if PSXhawk is on it.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Posted: 12/23/2015 10:44 AM
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Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2098)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2821
Location: Northern California
Homebrew TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TAS of 2020 Sega TAS of 2016
TAG wrote:
Aww come on man. I just want to know if PSXhawk is on it.
It'll come when it comes. There's no need to bother the devs like this.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Posted: 12/23/2015 9:47 PM
(Edited: 12/24/2015 2:29 AM)
Quote
Sappharad
Joined: 3/11/2012
Posts: 149
Location: WI
TAG wrote:
Aww come on man. I just want to know if PSXhawk is on it.
PSX has been supported on OS X since the same release it was added on Windows. The only systems OS X is missing (as far as I know) are N64, SNES, and Saturn. I have no intention of removing PSX support. As far as the other new things in 1.11.4, I haven't finished looking. Edit: 1.11.4 OS X build is out. There is not SNES support yet, I wasn't able to get that working, nor was I able to get the new LibRetro core loader working. Both of those features can be looked at some time in the future. I figured I'd release what's working, so you can get the fixes for other systems at least. The libRetro thing should work if you provide one of their .dylib files, but instead completely crashes the application. I'm not sure as to the cause. It loads the dylib fine, but crashes BizHawk when it actually tries to use it.
Posted: 12/23/2015 10:40 PM
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TAG
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Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
But the version I am using currently hangs after inserting the psx disc. EDIT: I figured out that i needed a bios to play a ps1 game lol.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Posted: 12/25/2015 9:57 AM
Quote
TAG
He/Him
Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 407
Location: In Oblivion
yes thankyyou fpr the update of 1.11.4
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Posted: 12/28/2015 7:19 AM
Post subject: Linux builds
Quote
scubed
Former player
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 155
I'm not familiar at all with C#, so please point me in the right direction. I wanted to try BizHawk on Linux. Are there any existing packages in major distributions? Not knowing that, I tried to compile BizHawk. So, I grabbed the tarball from https://github.com/TASVideos/BizHawk/archive/1.11.4.tar.gz I don't see a LICENSE file. What is it distributed under? Are there instructions for how to build? It would be helpful to have them at the top level directory. http://tasvideos.org/Bizhawk/Compiling.html doesn't seem to have anything about Linux. It looks like the make command for C# is "msbuild", but mono has a corresponding command "xbuild". So, I tried: xbuild /p:Configuration=Release BizHawk.sln It tried to run Build/BizHawk.Build.Tool.exe, but that failed, since it didn't say "mono" in front. I tried it with "mono". fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git That's very strange. I'm using the official release. Why would it expect to find .git? I tried removing the reference to Version.csproj from BizHawk.sln. That worked until it got to files being misnamed. (I realize Windows API is case preserving, so on a case sensitive filesystem, the files all show as not being found.) So, I tried to patch that: mv Version/version.csproj Version/Version.csproj mv BizHawk.Emulation.Cores/Consoles/Nintendo/N64/NativeAPI BizHawk.Emulation.Cores/Consoles/Nintendo/N64/NativeApi mv BizHawk.Emulation.Cores/Consoles/Nintendo/N64/NativeApi/mupen64plusInputAPI.cs BizHawk.Emulation.Cores/Consoles/Nintendo/N64/NativeApi/mupen64plusInputApi.cs mv BizHawk.Client.Common/tools/Watch/DwordWatch.cs BizHawk.Client.Common/tools/Watch/DWordWatch.cs mv BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk/CustomControls/ExceptionBox.Designer.cs BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk/CustomControls/ExceptionBox.designer.cs mv BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk/tools/CDL.Designer.cs BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk/tools/CDL.designer.cs After that, it compiled. However, it failed at linking: /nix/store/j3pdxzddyh8z9l3sym8ym1x1aln92291-mono-4.0.4.1/lib/mono/4.5/Microsoft.Common.targets: warning : Reference 'PresentationFramework' not resolved JumpLists.cs(6,22): error CS0234: The type or namespace name `Shell' does not exist in the namespace ` System.Windows'. Are you missing an assembly reference? I see that there's http://www.go-mono.com/status/status.aspx?reference=4.0&profile=4.5&assembly=PresentationFramework but, it's not clear to me what to install for that. Is it in a separate package from mono itself? That it mentions a Linux version of BizHawk elsewhere, I take it this has been solved previously. Sorry again for the basic questions. Any help would be appreciated.
Posted: 12/28/2015 3:16 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11469
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
There's a pull request to fix case mismatch for linux, but none of the admins said anything about it (publicly). It probably won't hurt. https://github.com/TASVideos/BizHawk/pull/468
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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