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Posted: 9/16/2005 3:58 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Oh, INDEED.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 9/17/2005 7:04 AM
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GWing_02
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 124
It's..... beautiful...........
Posted: 9/17/2005 12:51 PM
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Spoony_Bard
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
...wow. Just, wow. It's this kind of subtle improvement which makes tool-assisted speedruns so fascinating. Just how much time, do you think, this could save if applied to the full-level run? Something like this would stack quite a bit, I imagine...
Posted: 9/17/2005 2:00 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
If I understood it right, this trick only applies to running speed. And as ~ 80% of the Mario runs contain flying, the time improvement wouldn't be that much, I think
Posted: 9/17/2005 8:17 PM
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IdeaMagnate
Player (81)
Joined: 3/11/2005
Posts: 352
Location: Oregon
Fabian wrote:
Apparently I have the wrong rom because this movie desynchs right away for me. If anyone could help me out that'd be appreciated. Edit: Got it to work, thanks flagitious. This is very interesting indeed, it's too bad I didn't know about this when I started my SDW run, before I got the cape. Very nice!
Do you mind sharing the name of the correct rom?
ideamagnate| .seen aqfaq <nothing happens> DK64_MASTER| .seen nesvideoagent * DK64_MASTER slaps forehead
Posted: 9/17/2005 9:38 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
I thought flying was more or less there for convinience? Perhaps the run will be faster by running more than flying eh?
Posted: 9/17/2005 10:47 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
I thought flying was more or less there for convinience? No, flying is faster than running, and if I understand correctly, doing this trick is the same speed as flying. Do you mind sharing the name of the correct rom? Super Mario World (U) [!]
Posted: 9/18/2005 12:46 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
No, flying is faster than running, and if I understand correctly, doing this trick is the same speed as flying. Actually its still slower than flying, unless you started it from flying, then it would be the same speed. Do you mind sharing the name of the correct rom? Super Mario World (U) [!] Thanks, yes that is it.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 9/18/2005 6:44 AM
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GWing_02
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 124
For those who don't want to chomp through the scientific analysis by flagitious: Basically the game will waver around the highest running speed possible if you constantly hold right because of the way it calculates acceleration; it will actually hit a speed faster than the game will let it and it will slow you down slower than the speed limit to compensate. Hence you should hold right to exactly the maximum speed then make the game think you did a massively long long jump to the end of the level by only ever touching the ground for a frame at a time after that. Oh, and flagitious: I'm assuming the backwards-moving platforms no longer have an effect on your speed if you only land on them for a single frame?
Posted: 9/18/2005 3:09 PM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
GWing_02 wrote:
Oh, and flagitious: I'm assuming the backwards-moving platforms no longer have an effect on your speed if you only land on them for a single frame?
That is correct. Has anyone tried to see if in other games speed varies slightly while you are running? It might not be as abusable as doing it through the whole level, but perhaps you could do something like a coast in jump at the end of each level (that is what I did before I knew touching for 1 frame didn't slow you down).
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 9/18/2005 3:27 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
What kind of games? The kind where your character goes in a pattern of 1 pixel, 1 pixel, 2 pixels, or something with complicated physics similar to Mario?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 9/18/2005 3:30 PM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
I dunno, any game where there is acceleration when you press a direction instead of instant max speed. And where you do not loose speed when in the air or some other equivalent.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 9/18/2005 3:53 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
So not just manipulating Bomberman's walk cycle after he gets a skate so that the 2-pixel moves come up earlier?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 9/18/2005 4:43 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
So not just manipulating Bomberman's walk cycle after he gets a skate so that the 2-pixel moves come up earlier?
Bomberman doesn't accelerate, he just stays at his max speed. The max speed oscillates, but that's not something you can manipulate during the walk without completely stopping for at least a frame (since there's no momentum), so the oscillation would have to be quite large to gain any time that way. This is something that's more likely to apply to games where the character has some sort of momentum, like other Mario games, and only if the running physics are programmed in a really weird way (like in Super Mario World).
Posted: 9/18/2005 5:51 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Yeah, I get it... Actually, Bomberman's speed oscillates when you push left or right, so I can move the cycle up by pushing left or right when I'm restricted to jumping or falling for a while. And in the Game Boy Mega Mans besides 2, you actually have momentum while in the air, unlike on NES. But I don't think Mega Man's movement is programmed too terribly strangely unless you count the invisible pixel fractions that seem to be involved sometimes.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 9/18/2005 9:40 PM
Post subject: Missing Two Exits in SMW
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Ramzi
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
Heya guys. I sometimes delete my SMW data and start from scratch, playing through and getting *96 in one sitting. I deleted my data, except played it a little bit at a time over a period of days. I just finisged today, but I only have 94. I made sure to do every level that was red twice. My suspicion is I missed something in the Forest of Illusion, or the Chocolate Island levels. I redid the ghost house in Forest of Illusion, but nothing. In Chocoland Island 2, I completed the level with all three exits: the one with the baseball throwers, the one with the floating mushrooms, and the one with the dinosaurs. Still, 94. Any idea what I missed?
Posted: 9/18/2005 9:42 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Maybe the ghost house in Boswer Valley? Or the ghost house in Forest of Illusions? It has two exits I think. Nearly every level in that forest has two exits. Hmm, besides those I don't know what more could be hard to find.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 9/18/2005 9:45 PM
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Kles
Joined: 7/28/2005
Posts: 339
You'd be surprised at how many people forget to do all exits of the Star World levels. Did you get the link to Forest of Illusion 1 in the Ghost House? Did you get Chocolate Secret Area?
Posted: 9/18/2005 9:54 PM
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Ramzi
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
I found it. This file was used for testing a speed run. (I can consistently and easily do 13 minutes.) I was missing the normal exits on Star World 1 and Star World 2. The keys are only needed to move on to the next world, where as the regular exit merely makes you walk back to the star. After I completed them normally, Mario walked to the star before the level. I beat Star World 3 normally, and Mario did not walk. He doesn't walk if you've already gotten that exit. So I beat a ghost house, saved, and reset, and now I have *96.
Posted: 9/19/2005 5:09 PM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
If you are running on a platform moving forward does this max speed apply? And do you also retain your higher than running speed by jumping in this manner?
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 9/19/2005 5:15 PM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
I think the way the game handles moving platforms is that it does not actually effect speed, instead it just moves you while you are on it. The second you get off, you are the same speed that you were when you got on. So as far as I can tell there is no way to use the platforms to get a boost in speed.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 9/20/2005 8:40 AM
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feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
Figuring out which exits you may have missed in that game is a real headache. It reminds me of Grand Theft Auto, trying to track down which hidden packages I might have missed. It drove me a little crazy.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 9/20/2005 8:21 PM
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Kholdstare
Joined: 6/1/2005
Posts: 44
Location: MS US
Trying to remember which items you've already gotten in the Metroid games is horrible.
Posted: 9/24/2005 3:28 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
flagitious wrote:
I would be happy if someone were to resume work and make this run.
Well if that's the case, I may try it soon between doing levels of Super Demo World :)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 9/25/2005 4:39 PM
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supermegavkoy
Joined: 4/30/2005
Posts: 199
When I played Super Mario 64 and tried to get all the 120 stars I got crazy because I couldn't find the last star. I didn't know if I had taken all coins in all levels or not. After a few days I tried to get all the red coins in the second Bowser level again (as I thought) and there it was, the last star. And then I could visit Yoshi! YEAH! :D
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