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Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Just to update people on this project. It isn't dead. I'm just dealing with a lot of other issues currently for various projects, both in the speedrunning community and with my job(s). I did run into the problem of Bizhawk finally outpacing the TAS, 1.7 completely desyncs it in the beginning before the character name entry is even pulled up. I'm not sure if I can manually edit inputs to bypass this and see if the rest is affected or whatever. As far as I know, I'm stuck on 1.6.X and that's fine, but if there is a way to do so, I'd like to at least try it and see what other areas are different. I'm unsure of what causes the desync, but either way, just wanted to let everyone interested know I'm still planning to finish this off eventually, stuff just keeps coming up. :(
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
Finish it on the version of Bizhawk you started it on. This is fine. Looking forward to the TAS!
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Okay, so here's Act 2 Verm Skip route. Going to work on both variants of the route for Act 3 sometime in the near-ish future. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFCUfn2yqkY&feature=youtu.be I lost my tracking excel doc due to some corruptions during a backup, so that blows, but it'll be okay I think. The total frams lost to manipulations during the Aquagoth fight is 10, the total saved compared to the extra 2 casts in the non-VS strat is pretty awesome though. After this fight, I'm going to try and get to Verm Skip so I can get the people who were interested in looking into that sort of thing the proper stuff for it so we can maybe get that figured out for real-time runs as well as optimal TAS routing/manipulations. Once that's over with, we move towards Carltron, which will be a ridiculous fight to handle and route out. So yeah, closing in on the end guys. :D
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
It's coming~
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
PJ
He/Him
Joined: 2/1/2011
Posts: 182
Location: Western NY
So pumped! Congrats on getting past Aquagoth! Looks really great so far. :D
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
okay, so I messed with Verm Skip on the TAS finally today... Here's the general theory everyone is gravitating towards: The audio tracks for both dungeons (or something to this extent) are played at the same time, the game can't handle it and freaks out. That is the theory, here are the facts: - You get one of 2 different outcomes when you first enter the room under more or less any circumstances. Option A (the bad one): After the glitchy sounds are played out, you lose all background music entirely. Option B (the "good" one): After the glitchy sounds are played out, you retain the background music until the next instance of conflict is presented, which are the gate opening buttons on the ground. - Opening gates acts just the same as entering the room, glitchy sounds and a chance of failure between the two options. - The results of the above scenarios are both frame perfect, one after another, endlessly... At least as far as I can tell they are. - The game softlocks during the loading of the next map after the dungeons, the assumption here is that the music cannot be loaded because that part of the program is basically beyond all repair and the rest is just running until it can find an excuse to bomb out on the player. Now then, what does this mean for the TAS? It means I'm gonna have a fun time blowing my ears out trying to get solid RNG while maintaining some kind of respectable pathing/timing through this damn place. I am pretty much completely unhappy about it... Regardless, it'll get done sooner or later. This also means that if I can manage to get a working method through there, I will likely be at Carltron in a matter of days, but this is quite a large interest point and I'll probably spend a while on it. What about the other version of the TAS? Probably going to finish it as well one day to see the differences in frames and get an accurate measurement of "value" for the trick itself to weigh against the absolute bullshit RNG it throws at you in the process of doing it for real-time runners. That and I guess I kind of want to finish what I started so I can move onto Terranigma without any regrets/annoyances. What about real-time runs? Don't do Verm Skip for now, it's just not worth losing a potentially great run over. I know some people (including myself) will think/say to just go for broke because it's faster, and that's true, it is faster, but it's also one more death point for a run that rarely ever sees past the first minute of attempts. That being said, I'd argue it would be worth including into a route and going for if you never want your run beaten, because nobody else is doing it.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
creaothceann
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 4/7/2005
Posts: 1874
Location: Germany
TheAngryPanda wrote:
Now then, what does this mean for the TAS? It means I'm gonna have a fun time blowing my ears out trying to get solid RNG while maintaining some kind of respectable pathing/timing through this damn place.
Maybe you (or someone else) can find a RAM address that indicates if the game will glitch out, and display it on screen.
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2238)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
TheAngryPanda wrote:
...so I can move onto Terranigma...
Excellent. I'll be following the hell out of that run.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
creaothceann wrote:
TheAngryPanda wrote:
Now then, what does this mean for the TAS? It means I'm gonna have a fun time blowing my ears out trying to get solid RNG while maintaining some kind of respectable pathing/timing through this damn place.
Maybe you (or someone else) can find a RAM address that indicates if the game will glitch out, and display it on screen.
It's highly unlikely to be as simple as a single RAM address, given it's a music related glitch.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
So somewhat major update on the TAS: I am officially past Verm Skip territory and working on finishing up Act 3 + Collection Stuff. Here's the general plan: ~week or so to do the rest of act 3 + collection crap ~week of testing certain things in act 4, or what little of it remains ~week of optimizing the final boss and the boss rush before it So yeah guys, final stretch! Then I'm gonna hand it to some select people and we can watch together and come up with some solid notes. So yeah, hopefully a video of Act 3 soon! :D
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
Looking forward to your release ^^
Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann
TheAngryPanda wrote:
So somewhat major update on the TAS: I am officially past Verm Skip territory and working on finishing up Act 3 + Collection Stuff. Here's the general plan: ~week or so to do the rest of act 3 + collection crap ~week of testing certain things in act 4, or what little of it remains ~week of optimizing the final boss and the boss rush before it So yeah guys, final stretch! Then I'm gonna hand it to some select people and we can watch together and come up with some solid notes. So yeah, hopefully a video of Act 3 soon! :D
you better select me ;) wanna waaaaaatch it
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Yeah, sadly I got super sick a week or so ago. I'm still getting over it and well, let's just say TAS'ing while sick results in redo'ing entire sections due to poor judgement on my end. :( Anywho, the TAS is sitting at the doorstep of the final boss, just need to start feeling a bit better before I get back to it. Sorry for the constant delays. :(
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 893
hi, just poping this thread for some simples question did we find what determine the optional boss code in omnitopia ( faces ?) or are they RNG based ? again in omnitopia; is the last flower of the greenhouse à kill trigger if the screen lights are up or can we pass it ? ( i can go thru the maze but the last one is untargetable and triggers when you pass it with the boy) i can go trhu using the rear exit with the lights on but i can't remember if there was something special there....? thanks
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
What determines the boss code is still an unknown and likely won't be discovered anytime soon since 100% hasn't been routed for TAS'ing, and it has no importance for Any%. As for the flowers in the greenhouse, the only thing I can think of it maybe camera/menu clipping through whatever might be blocking you, but in both 100% and Any%, this is bypassed either through Saturn Skip or clever routing (in theory). Also, if people are curious about the Any% TAS, I'm still working on it ~2 hours every day, the final fight is just bonkers and very frustrating. Probably just going to knock it out and call it done on the next really solid attempt. Typically the raptors either destroy the chances due to how they're pathing/damage works at some point OR Dark Toaster (evil dog clone) screws everything with a ridiculous amount of dodging.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
Count me in as one of the many hype for this TAS to be complete! :)
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 893
thanks the angry panda, i'm awating for your tas too :) i'll try things left and right and see what goes ....
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Yeah, I'm trying to get it done, it's just being a royal bitch honestly. Basically, what's happening is that the raptors are either rolling an evade chance or I'm rolling a miss/critical chance near the end of the raptor sequence(s). If I happen to make it past that part, the rimsalas haven't really been an issue since they spawn in static locations and I can force them to go where I want/predict outcomes and adjust as needed. The real problem comes with the Dark Toaster and how it loves to dodge 13 times in a row with a 5 frame window for manipulation per each attack input. That's assuming I'm going for perfection, I typically allow a 7 input frame window because of this unreal dodge amount to just get something going, and even then I haven't been able to accomplish that so far with the RNG I'm given so far. That doesn't really sound too bad until you realize that you have to backup into previously "perfected" parts of the fight to alter the manipulations and then roll the same perfection again or find a way to get back on the RNG rolls you were on before in those fights through other means. The worst was going from Dark Toaster all the way back to re-do'ing the Saturn Skip to get into the final boss rush because I simply was not capable of finding a proper RNG roll to manage a decent Dark Toaster fight. Probably the heaviest blow the game's dealt to me in terms of motivation alone. Generally speaking, if I get past Dark Toaster, the TAS is finished. If I don't, I just get pissed off and do something else the rest of the day. Pretty tedious/frustrating after a few weeks of it. Anyways, I'm going to start routing out 100% sometime in the near future to take my mind of Any%'s nonsense so I have some sense of progress going on, which will hopefully give me some motivation. As always, all that progress will likely be done on my stream or updated in a gdoc I'll make or tag onto the SoE Guide I created for the RTA runners, so if you're interested in that, I'll leave the links here for you guys. http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 http://goo.gl/1BK8jV Minor update 1: Apparently it's faster to just stand around and do absolutely nothing between enemy waves once you get into position. Not my an insignificant amount either, something like 30-50 frame variance across each wave. So, that being said, there will unfortunately be a bit of standing around during the final boss rush. I'm not particularly happy about it, but I can't justify sacrificing that many frames for the minor entertainment it would provide for those brief few seconds. If it were only 4-10 frames, it'd be different, but yeah... :(
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2238)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
I hate to be "that person", but how's progress going? Everything still being a royal bitch? :c
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Yeah, let's just say life kind of happened and this got put on the waiting list for me. Anyways, I'm slowly getting back into things. I'm a little disappointed though in the final fight area. Once again it's because I'm focused entirely on speed, and the fastest thing to do is stand around at certain points... So yeah, not happy with this, but the frame loss is too large (for me) to merit running around and moving the camera due to the delay it causes on the next wave spawning. Other than that minor annoyance, I'm on the Rimsalas in the final fight sequence. Should be interesting to optimize. I've also started typing up notes for the route, which made me realize just how boring Act 3 is due to all the cutscenes. As for future stuff, I'm planning on attacking SoE 100% after Any% is done. Alongside this will be either Secret of Mana, Terranigma, or Illusion of Gaia. That all being said, sadly I do not have any idea when things will be finished, but they will get finished. I did start typing up some notes though, which is how close we are to finishing: http://pastebin.com/WrxmCJCF .
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
Me and many other people here are still super excited for this TAS, and will wait as long as it takes for this work to come out :) Good luck!
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Rimsalas are getting done today, hopefully. After that, it's going to just be about dropped the doppleganger (bad boy clone) which is easy after I find the best position to do so within the map area. My guess is that bottom-right or bottom-left will be most suited for this and the next fight (dark toaster). Dark Toaster is all about manipulating no dodges, which may be impossible. I basically have an entire attack animation frame window to manipulate no dodges for things to be faster, but this enemy has a notoriously high dodge rate and is also very quick to react after being hit. If anything is going to delay the TAS from finishing, it's this fight and this fight alone. Expect either a quick 1 day finish of this one or possibly up to a week, assuming I actually get the capability to work on it. Metal Magmar is a joke. Carltron is just manipulating as few jumps as possible, which may take a while and one or two may end up slipping into the fight, which is fine as long as I attack on the last frame it will register, because then my next attack will hit him when he comes down if I delay 1 or 2 frames (depends on all the action on the screen). This delay is acceptable to me, though I'm going to try for no jumps at all. After that it's just A/B spam until everything is done and over with. Not really sure when to "stop" the TAS movie though... Saturn stops at the final "The End" screen, which is a VERY long waiting time. Anyone have any ideas?
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Editor, Experienced player (848)
Joined: 5/2/2015
Posts: 696
Location: France
TheAngryPanda wrote:
Not really sure when to "stop" the TAS movie though... Saturn stops at the final "The End" screen, which is a VERY long waiting time. Anyone have any ideas?
Stop the TAS on the same frame you do the last input needed to reach the end screen.
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Alright, sounds good to me. I'm currently working on the Dark Toaster fight and it's going about as miserable as it was expected to. Hopefully will have a nice update soon. Awesome Update #1: Dark Toaster down. That's all. Matter of time now. Awesome Update #2: I'm done with the Any% TAS, started outlining the 100% TAS, and started researching a different project. I'll have the video, notes, and other things on here when possible. Really hope this lives up to everyone's expectations. If not, oh well, I tried; lol. :D Will post link later today, going to sleep for now though.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2238)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
TheAngryPanda wrote:
I'm done with the Any% TAS, started outlining the 100% TAS, and started researching a different project.
Hell yes, excellent work! If the next project is Terranigma, I know at least one other person aside from me who's interested in working on it... Collab?
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
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