Posted: 8/12/2015 5:43 PM
Post subject: Skipping PSX BIOS screen in encodes
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11469
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
Since BIOS screen in Bizhawk is dumped as a separate video segment, we actually can drop it. Should we? I think it carries no useful info, and as it's already skipped in some emulators internally (PSXHawk isn't going to do so though), it has some precedent.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 8/12/2015 10:19 PM
Quote
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2630)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6435
Location: The land down under.
Flash TASer of 2022 PSX TASer of 2016
I have a log on this. 
[2015-07-19 01:47:54] <Spikestuff> adelikat: Oh right and before you ask, bios screen is in the input, the avi dump doesn't show the bios bootup.
[2015-07-19 01:48:21] <adelikat> you cropped out the bios for the encode?
[2015-07-19 01:50:13] <Spikestuff> adelikat: more like I had it on "Hardcore Debug Mode" and gave me the bios startup and game as 2 separate videos (well to be exact 6 videos 5 for bios 1 for game)
[2015-07-19 01:51:17] <adelikat> uhhh, k
[2015-07-19 01:51:25] <adelikat> for an official encode, the BIOS should be in there
[2015-07-19 01:51:41] <Spikestuff> adelikat: Well thank God it's a temp
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Posted: 8/12/2015 10:20 PM
Quote
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3570)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
TASer of 2010 NES TASer of 2010 DS TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 NES TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2008 Funny TAS of 2008 TASer of 2007 NES TASer of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
What adelikat said.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Posted: 8/12/2015 10:22 PM
Post subject: Re: Skipping PSX BIOS screen in encodes
Quote
natt
Editor, Emulator Coder, Site Developer
Joined: 5/11/2011
Posts: 1108
Location: Murka
feos wrote:
Since BIOS screen in Bizhawk is dumped as a separate video segment, we actually can drop it.
What does that have to do with anything? A dozen keystrokes will cut the bios sequence out of any video regardless of system or segments. Is 12 keystrokes easier really an interesting factor here?
Posted: 8/12/2015 11:46 PM
Quote
creaothceann
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 4/7/2005
Posts: 1874
Location: Germany
What about GB encodes? Afaik for hardware-verifiable TASes, the "Nintendo™" logo can't be circumvented.
Posted: 8/14/2015 12:45 AM
Quote
zaphod77
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 340
Actually this is difficult to handle. DUring the BLACK screen the game's boot exe is loaded. so the length of the bios screen is variable depending on the game. but with eaerlier emulators, the BIOS screen is skipped, yet the exe is loaded anyway. so it's hard to convert from with and without bios. The run should be times with bios screen skip AND without. this gives you how many frames are actually eaten by the BIOS screen, to determine obsoletion comparing to bios skipped runs.
Posted: 8/14/2015 12:57 AM
Quote
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2098)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2821
Location: Northern California
Homebrew TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TAS of 2020 Sega TAS of 2016
zaphod77 wrote:
The run should be times with bios screen skip AND without. this gives you how many frames are actually eaten by the BIOS screen, to determine obsoletion comparing to bios skipped runs.
That... isn't what this topic is about at all. As for my opinion: Keep the BIOS screens in encodes. Not only are they great and nostalgic, but they're a good sign of accuracy. It legitimizes the runs just that much more to keep them in the encodes. That, and if they're unskippable in the input file, they shouldn't be skipped in the encodes either.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Posted: 8/14/2015 1:07 AM
Quote
dekutony
Experienced player (643)
Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2230
Location: Guatemala
They're unskippable like the GBA BIOS intro... so we should keep it?
Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony
Posted: 8/14/2015 1:12 AM
Quote
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2630)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6435
Location: The land down under.
Flash TASer of 2022 PSX TASer of 2016
Kurabupengin wrote:
They're unskippable like the GBA BIOS intro... so we should keep it?
Correction, mGBA bios intro. Not VBA-Next.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Posted: 8/14/2015 1:13 AM
Quote
Invariel
He/Him
Editor, Site Developer, Player (171)
Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 539
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Arcade TAS of 2023
If we're keeping all of the company logo screens (because they're part of the game's boot sequence) in other consoles, we should keep the PSX BIOS screen in PSX encodes for the same reason.
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Posted: 8/14/2015 8:41 PM
Quote
CoolKirby
Editor, Experienced player (569)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4034
Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
I think we should keep BIOS screens in so our encodes are more accurate both to the console's behavior and the movie length. It would look strange if the encoded movie always finished 15+ seconds faster than the listed movie time.
Posted: 8/15/2015 7:40 AM
Quote
Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
In the beginnings of console TASing, there were some accusations that the videos were edited, ie. things cut out. In other words, outright cheating. While those times are long past and basically nobody thinks like that anymore, perhaps it would nevertheless not be a good idea to start now. (Yes, I understand that cutting some BIOS screen is not the same thing as cutting something from the gameplay itself, but still...) After all, we aim for purity and perfection, and 1-to-1 correspondence between the movie and what would happen on the real console. However, I do admit that it wouldn't be a big issue. I don't think anybody would complain either way.
Posted: 8/15/2015 11:14 AM
Quote
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
DS TAS of 2012
I think it’s cool to show BIOS on encodes but if the TASer/player has to go through it as well that just sounds like a massive pain in the ass…
Posted: 8/15/2015 6:06 PM
Quote
henke37
Editor
Joined: 3/10/2010
Posts: 899
Location: Sweden
It's a slippery slope for systems that doesn't autoboot the game.
Posted: 8/15/2015 6:32 PM
Quote
ars4326
He/Him
Experienced player (775)
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Since there's no consistent standard on this yet (being as other current PSX runs have the BIOS skipped in their encodes), should there be one at some point, going forward?
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Posted: 8/15/2015 7:54 PM
Quote
TehBerral
Active player (263)
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
ALAKTORN wrote:
I think it’s cool to show BIOS on encodes but if the TASer/player has to go through it as well that just sounds like a massive pain in the ass…
I'm currently working on a PSX game in BH and can tell you it isn't. I just skip right past it and continue working. It's basically like another company splash screen (which most games have anyway), really.
Somewhat damaged.