Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Im both happy (thanks to DeHackEd) and a bit confused. With DeHackEd's suggestion, I was obviously forced to redo my Pharaoh Man battle and (If Im correct) managed to shave (was so obvious) off about 11 frames compared with mine and kopernicals final blow :D
But the weird thing is, It seems that even though I managed to find a new faster way to give Pharaoh Man the final blow, Im 0,5 seconds or so behind kopernical?? If I remember correctly, I gave the final blow between 7516-7517 in my previous run, but here I managed to finish him off around at 7505. As I mentioned earlier, Windows media player is not the best reliable frame or time counter, so would someone be so kind to confirm if Im behind or faster than kopernical, I would be most delighted.
Here is the latest version of my battle with Pharaoh Man:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/59/Mega%20Man%204%20%28U%29.fcm
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
That was great thing you did D :) With your movie, you showed that maybe it is for the best that I give up (not that I mean or want peoples pity or sympathy) and let kopernical himself or other more experienced Megaman or someone better than me do this run. It was a very interesting video, Bisqwits concern was right about the start if I really hit the precise right frame to klick the start button, so there Im mabye 10-20 frames behind, though as you all saw, I was a bit faster during the sand area and also the second half of the entire stage. It felt as if my second jump was 1-2 frames slower even though I checked with frame counter and it showed that It was equal to jump at that point with sliding normally. Boss battle... hmmm really really thought that when I shaved another 10-11 frames I were according to my schedule; 1 second ahead of kopernical, but I guess D properly showed me wrong :D
I hope someone else will give this run a try, because I sincerely had alot of fun doing this.
Instead of that extra shot, how about you use the shot that kills the monster to charge your Buster?
Again i repeat, It did not affect my time, frame unit, acceleration etc. Have you even seen my current run? Besides, with that missed shot, I don't think this site would vote no in any future completed megaman 4 run because of one insignificant missed shot.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
There are other possibilities you may not have considered.
Let's ignore the missed shot. It's close enough to Pharoah Man's door that fixing it right now wouldn't be that big a deal.
These were recorded under two different emulators. They will produce slightly different sets of physics. Maybe the lag is unavoidable because Famtasia simulates a faster NES CPU. The AVI was recorded under the pretense of frames (rather than time... FCEU runs at a framerate of 60.1 instead of 60.0 fps). I am in no way able to judge if this is the cause of a lot of lag.
Watching the movie more closely, you do technically blow up Pharoah Man first, but it takes longer for the game to award you your new weapon. The most obvious possibility is that the "debris" balls of light are on-screen longer; kopernical destroyed King Tut closer to the center of the screen.
Don't give up!
Angerfist, Im having just as hard time as you are trying to keep up with Kopernical's published movie. At the beginning, chooseing Rockman rom, i am 214 frames ahead. Then, after i did FinalFighters trick in the underground of the level, I should be more then 214 frames ahead, but, i am only 198 :|. so.. My idea is not to look at his movie anymore, and do it my style. and after every second, make sure i am still ahead.
So, never give up, like DeHackEd said.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
DeHackEd wrote:
These were recorded under two different emulators. They will produce slightly different sets of physics. Maybe the lag is unavoidable because Famtasia simulates a faster NES CPU. The AVI was recorded under the pretense of frames (rather than time... FCEU runs at a framerate of 60.1 instead of 60.0 fps). I am in no way able to judge if this is the cause of a lot of lag.
Watching the movie more closely, you do technically blow up Pharoah Man first, but it takes longer for the game to award you your new weapon. The most obvious possibility is that the "debris" balls of light are on-screen longer; kopernical destroyed King Tut closer to the center of the screen.
Don't give up!
I sincerely appreciate your encouragement D. Very interesting facts you showed. Good to know you confirmed that I technically kill slightly faster or "blow up" as you wrote, Pharaoh Man, because I said, I really felt I did kill him faster than previous time. And YOU COMPLETELY read my mind regarding that it took longer for the game to award me with my new weapon. I was like: WTF? Why is it taking so long, I did not mention this because I thought it was part of the game. One last thing, knowing that kopernical kill Pharaoh Man closer to the center, I assumed that it does not matter where you stand, as long as you kill him fast as possible, and then stand on the center of the screen, which I did. I assume it does not matter where you stand for the final blow..?
Depending on your answer D, My hope still lives until you have reached a verdict....
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Angerfist, Im having just as hard time as you are trying to keep up with Kopernical's published movie. At the beginning, chooseing Rockman rom, i am 214 frames ahead. Then, after i did FinalFighters trick in the underground of the level, I should be more then 214 frames ahead, but, i am only 198 :|. so.. My idea is not to look at his movie anymore, and do it my style. and after every second, make sure i am still ahead.
You too? I did aswell assumed that you would be faster after using finalfighters trick, how freakin strange!
Yeah I do use more or less your idea to look every second if Im ahead. I save each time I do a perfect slide so...
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
yeah.. This is going to take us forever :D. The first time i tried to do a Battletoads movie, i had 135 rerecords for a 20 minute movie. I got over 300 rerecords on my 40 second megaman movie. Im having alot of trouble with him not jumping when i ask him to.
Wow. That's strange.
The only reason for the run ending like it did, that I can think of, is the position where Pharaohman explodes.
The level ending won't start until all the explosion effects have disappeared from the screen, and in Angerfist's movie, the longest route of those pulsating balls is almost the screen wide, whereas in Kopernical's movie it's only half screen long.
It seems that it's always best to kill the bosses at the screen center.
I've also thought that the same might be true for Rockman 1.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Bisqwit wrote:
DeHackEd wrote:
Wow. That's strange.
The only reason for the run ending like it did, that I can think of, is the position where Pharaohman explodes.
The level ending won't start until all the explosion effects have disappeared from the screen, and in Angerfist's movie, the longest route of those pulsating balls is almost the screen wide, whereas in Kopernical's movie it's only half screen long.
It seems that it's always best to kill the bosses at the screen center.
I've also thought that the same might be true for Rockman 1.
It should certainly not effect where Pharaoh Man stand on the screen, because according to my knowledge, it simply depends when you kill him or deliver the final blow fast as possible. I don't know how to further my argument but it sounds so damn unlogical (or is the correct term; illogic?) that its for the best for Pharaoh Man to stand on the center of the screen.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
I don't know how to further my argument but it sounds so damn unlogical (or is the correct term; illogic?) that its for the best for Pharaoh Man to stand on the center of the screen.
You think the game is programmed as follows:
Loop until Pharoahman = Dead
then
do Explosion animation and simultaneously start a small timer to delay Mega Man obtaining the weapon.
However, the game may do things in the following way:
Loop until Pharoahman = Dead
then
Loop until Explosions = offscreen
and THEN start a small timer to delay Mega Man obtaining the weapon.
That's all I can come up with from watching the videos side by side.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
(3572)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
okay here are som frame counts:
1st frame of boss exploding until no pieces are remaining
killing boss at near extreme edge of screen = 380 frames
killing boss at center: = 276
104 frame difference
megaman at extreme edge after boss explosion = 532
megaman at center after boss explosion = 388
potential difference (sum of the two extremes) = 248 frames
In this megaman you can move around after making the boss explode, so is would be best to destroy the boss closest to the center as possible regardles of megaman's position, then have him quickly run to the center.
If you notice in kopernical's run he always has megaman dead center and the bosses usually explode relatively close to it (dustman is a notable exception to this)
Of course this makes it more complicated because it may be faster to destroy the boss off center as long as you saved enough frames to compensate for the added explosion animation
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Alright to sum up some important notes:
It seems its much faster to start with rockman rom since Vatchern has saved 214 frames at the beginning of the run, so I should switch my rom (?). As DeHackEd mentioned, it seems that FCEU runs at a framerate of 60.1 instead of 60.0 fps. So it may possibly be the case why you can see kopernical slowly coming near me (timewise) at the end, before the battle with Pharaoh Man. And as you all pointed out, even though I finish Pharaoh Man faster in my run, it is faster if Pharaoh Man stand on the middle of the screen (even though it makes more sense now to me but it still pisses me off). So knowing all this, There seem no way I can keep my current files, as I should delete them, start with Famtasia, rockman4 rom and kill P Man on the center off the screen... It took me some weeks were Im right now in my run so I certainly don't know if I have the energy to start all over with all new rom and emu. I don't know...
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
The framerate doesn't matter except when playing the movies side by side. Ultimately your movie will be judged from the total number of frames anyway.
You should not switch ROM. For comparison purposes the rules state that you should use the same ROM as the previous version.
Also I would strongly recommend against switching to Famtasia. Why on earth would you do that anyway and how did it enter the discussion?
The Megaman series are known to be a bitch. Bisqwit started over Megaman 1 from scratch I don't remember how many times (4?) and Morimoto's and Finalfighter's MM2 was in production for well over a year. If you wanted something easy you sure chose the wrong series...
Suggested course of action:
Calm down, save a backup of your current movie files for reference, and start over. If possible, convert the current Famtasia run to FCEU with Nesmock, or ask someone to do it for you, and get frame counts from that for comparison.
Agreed. Don't use famtasia. Among other things, it lacks Frame-Advance.
My next suggestion is to ignore time. Go for frames. The AVI I made was encoded with a complete disregard for framerate - the frames are synchronized and the FCEU side is running at 60 FPS (very slightly slower then its normal emulation speed). All you have to do is improve it by 3.7 "seconds" to compensate for the framerate drift.
Lastly, use frame-advance. I can't tell if you are or not. You can precisely count how long it takes to charge your Mega Buster to full power (and/or how long King Tut's invulnerability cycle lasts) and blast Pharoah Man, at which point it becomes a matter of ensuring you're at point blank range to fire when the right frame comes up.
Suggested course of action:
Calm down, save a backup of your current movie files
I have done that now alot. saving at different seconds, some points where its frustrating me. I might have a 3 day break since im going out of town for 3 days. or i might bring the rom/movie file/fceu/famtasia/kopernicals fmv with me.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
DeHackEd wrote:
Agreed. Don't use famtasia. Among other things, it lacks Frame-Advance.
My next suggestion is to ignore time. Go for frames. The AVI I made was encoded with a complete disregard for framerate - the frames are synchronized and the FCEU side is running at 60 FPS (very slightly slower then its normal emulation speed). All you have to do is improve it by 3.7 "seconds" to compensate for the framerate drift.
Lastly, use frame-advance. I can't tell if you are or not. You can precisely count how long it takes to charge your Mega Buster to full power (and/or how long King Tut's invulnerability cycle lasts) and blast Pharoah Man, at which point it becomes a matter of ensuring you're at point blank range to fire when the right frame comes up.
All you have to do is improve it by 3.7 seconds? From where and why are you getting this time? I do not understand the hysteria over frame-advance, in my run, I only used it once at the beginning when selecting Pharaoh Man. I dont think I need it that badly, because, I play at 1-3% speed, and do the best slides and jumps, though the only tiny itsy bitsy problem is that you have to count which frame you can press the jump and shoot button etc. And I also can determine how long it takes to see when Pharaoh Man´s invulnerability cycle lasts by using 1-3% speed. When I get home, Im going to see if I can improve my Pharaoh Man battle once again by trying to move him to the center, and if I manage to do that, i will continue from there and not starting all over again.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
I got it a backwards.
The current movie has a time of "36:14.83". That works out to be 130490 frames at 60 fps.
Now if FCEU runs at 60.1 FPS, then the same movie would be an AVI of 36:11.22. I had it backwards, thinking FCEU would produce the slower game. That was how I got the number.
All that aside, I think your goal should be in frames. Forget about time for now. Work in frames only.
During your Pharoah Man battle, you seemed to slowly lose speed. This is why I suggest using frame-advance through the battle with Pharoah Man. There may be something subtle you're missing. With Frame-Advance, your timing is almost impossible to miss. I'd also suggest the same thing on the menu screen; I think you lost a bit of time there...
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
DeHackEd wrote:
All that aside, I think your goal should be in frames. Forget about time for now. Work in frames only.
During your Pharoah Man battle, you seemed to slowly lose speed. This is why I suggest using frame-advance through the battle with Pharoah Man. There may be something subtle you're missing. With Frame-Advance, your timing is almost impossible to miss. I'd also suggest the same thing on the menu screen; I think you lost a bit of time there...
Roger that. Lets make a deal, if I manage to shave off several frames and make him stand on the center of the screen I'll continue from there on. Though Im not so sure if I lost slowly speed, but I know wish I did so I can gain even more frames. From now on, I'll only think gaining frames, not 0,x seconds.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
THATS THE SPIRIT!!! :D
Yeah, I was saying the same, up to boss battle, you were gaining frames by better timing and accuracy on jumps and movement.
By the time boss battle began you were ahead, but then something happened during boss battle, and you were losing mad frames there.
I think you need to try firing earlier to see if your shots can hit and do damage before the actual blinking ends. I think this was the case in mmx for some bosses. Maybe its true for mm4 too.
In addition dead boss in middle trick etc :)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
OMG........ I could kiss you :) Dude, I wish they were more soooo nice people like you :) Does this mean what I think it means? You have for my account played the correct way and finished him off? I feel so humble..
Edit:
If this is true, I want to fully clearify that even though if there are some doubters out there that might think I would not have done that nicely as D did, well I could have almost swear that I would have gave my best. In fact, due to he finished him off so damn fast, how about me doing the levels, and D doing all the bosses :D D: D:? that way, when we finish the game, the finished avi file will be: megaman4-tas-angerfist&dehacked.avi :D
Edit numero DOS: DeHackEd, before you answer, consider the posibility me and you doing this game together. I could almost promise that we would have finished this game within 1-2 months. Please consider :D
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
heh, enthusiasm seems to be back.
However, there is some slowdown just as the boss explodes, I wonder if placing megaman someplace else before final shot, and avoiding having too many explosion dots on the same 'scanline' as megaman is could help reduce that lag.
Just something additional to test out :P
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Arrgh! Damnit TnSe leave me alone :D
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
