Post by solarplex

Posted: 8/29/2014 4:28 AM

Post subject: Hachiemon

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (941)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

So this Japanese only game I came across seems like a nice game to TAS. There are quite a few variations of movement, so optimizing the game completely is pretty hard. That makes it interesting (at least to me) to TAS. The games difficulty affects how many "lips" you have to collect in each level, as well as how many enemies there are. You have to collect at least 11 out of the first stage, and there are a total of 13. Which means I can omit two. I did the first stage several times, and I think I've found which 11 I want to get. Tell me what you think. (Userfiles still being a pain, so mediafire it is) http://www.mediafire.com/download/b40srrshbpd0dmq/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard3.bk2

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 8/29/2014 5:03 AM

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solarplex

Active player (476)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

Link to video

Posted: 8/29/2014 5:23 AM

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ars4326

He/Him

Experienced player (777)

Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA

So the Duck's beak can be used as a boomerang to retrieve lips? Can it be thrown in different directions? For example, could it be used to retrieve lip #6 as you continue through the level? WIP is looking good!

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9

Posted: 8/29/2014 9:12 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (941)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

ars4326 wrote:

could it be used to retrieve lip #6 as you continue through the level?

I tested that earlier, but seeing as you lose your beak during that time, which is the fastest mode of travel, it actually turned out to be slower by.. 20 frames or so. I'll go back and recheck that. Also, the grass "stairs" are time consuming to climb, and I'd have to climb them if I boomerang'd #6. As far as directions, there are only 2, left and right. You can't throw it diagonally. However when it returns to you it must go diagonally so that's something to consider too. I messed around with the ending section, and cut off 18 more frames. Here's that file if anyone is interested: http://www.mediafire.com/download/9cw4f62ejc5cqcx/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard3.3.bk2

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 8/29/2014 2:03 PM

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gocha

Any

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya

Exxonym, I'm looking forward to your run. Keep the good work. :) By the way, it's shame that BizHawk 1.8.0 does not play the BGM correctly. I asked old women in Osaka to make a takoyaki that will fix the problem. Here it is: http://1drv.ms/1tSxGxW Extract libvbanext.dll and put it into BizHawk/dll directory. I think it does not change the movie timing. Use it at your own risk, anyways.

I am usually available on Discord server or Twitter.

Posted: 8/29/2014 6:28 PM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (941)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

gocha wrote:

BizHawk 1.8.0 does not play the BGM correctly

Hmm I hadn't noticed that before, but you're right. Replacing that file did work, but I made backups just in case. So I improved the very first section by about 10-12 frames, but that stupid enemy was in the way now, since I beat his cycle. So by the end of the level, only 2 frames were saved. Let me know if you spot somewhere that you think could be improved. ~~http://www.mediafire.com/download/b92z76o8gh89d6a/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard3.4.bk2~~ Edit: Saved 4 more frames, by not spinning off of one of the last lip grabs, so that way I can grab the floating ledge faster at the end. ~~http://www.mediafire.com/download/wk5373ut5e1fxgm/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard3.5.bk2~~ Edit: Saved 9 more frames. New strat involving falling faster near the boomerang section, and a few frames afterwards. http://www.mediafire.com/download/apjt7sd1s8txfr4/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard3.6.bk2 Btw solarplex, you don't have to encode every little optimization I make :P

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 8/31/2014 4:21 PM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (941)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

So, finished the second level.. I think. There's probably a frame or two to be saved, but I went through it several times. http://www.mediafire.com/download/3hdfpyo89ck57kw/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard2.7.bk2

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 8/31/2014 10:12 PM

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solarplex

Active player (476)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

Exxonym wrote:

So, finished the second level.. I think. There's probably a frame or two to be saved, but I went through it several times.

Link to video

Posted: 9/2/2014 3:45 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (941)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Alright, this one took a bit longer than I thought. The dreaded water stage. Fortunately it turned out a lot faster than I thought, because you can still use all your abilities. Found a few good tricks for saving a little bit of time. ~~http://www.mediafire.com/download/q91j3086p7mk74f/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard305.bk2~~ ~~Saved 7 more frames by messing around with the end section. http://www.mediafire.com/download/r8ma1w3d6a1eyda/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard306.bk2~~ Okay that fix was sloppy, now 4 frames faster and should be closer to optimal. http://www.mediafire.com/download/16d33ep9w07pz08/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard307.bk2

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 9/2/2014 10:18 PM

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solarplex

Active player (476)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

Exxonym wrote:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/16d33ep9w07pz08/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard307.bk2

Link to video

Posted: 9/3/2014 11:13 PM

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gocha

Any

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya

solarplex, thank you for the encode. It's useful for quick watching. I would be glad if you applied the sound fix I've posted above.

gocha wrote:

By the way, it's shame that BizHawk 1.8.0 does not play the BGM correctly. I asked old women in Osaka to make a takoyaki that will fix the problem. Here it is: http://1drv.ms/1tSxGxW Extract libvbanext.dll and put it into BizHawk/dll directory. I think it does not change the movie timing. Use it at your own risk, anyways.

I am usually available on Discord server or Twitter.

Posted: 9/3/2014 11:17 PM

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natt

Editor, Emulator Coder, Site Developer

Joined: 5/11/2011
Posts: 1108
Location: Murka

The next Bizhawk release will have that fix applied, FYI. It should now also be present in any new SVN builds you get.

Posted: 9/8/2014 8:55 PM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (941)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Up to level 7, but I can't figure this level out. Real life events have reduced my free time drastically, so I haven't spent much time on it. If someone could translate the Japanese signs in this level, it might give me a hint. http://www.mediafire.com/download/a5nq2vf1dd636my/Exxonym_Hachiemon_hard701.bk2 Edit: Nevermind, found the object that makes you small at the very top of the screen almost near the level's exit.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 9/28/2014 11:01 PM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (941)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

So it's been a while since I've posted an update. Finished up through level 9 for now. I might revisit level 9 before moving on, as there are a few things I want to try. I've been kinda lazy with the game lately, but I've put too much time into it now to give up! Anyway, here's the progress for the curious: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/17718890820951695

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 9/28/2014 11:51 PM

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solarplex

Active player (476)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

Exxonym wrote:

http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/17718890820951695

Link to video

Posted: 10/2/2014 10:23 PM

Quote

gocha

Any

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya

I watched the last WIP. It was very impressive. Good boomerang use in mole level.

I am usually available on Discord server or Twitter.

Posted: 10/3/2014 7:42 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (941)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

The mole levels in particular are hard to optimize. The fact that I take 2 hits to save time, means I can't get hit again, so I have to beat the spiked guy back up the cave. I found out it's actually faster to do it that way anyway, instead of using the boomerang to grab all the pieces at the bottom. Feel free to suggest an improvement if you think it will save time. Edit: Of course as soon as I post this, I find an improvement. Improved 58 frames by using a boomerang to quick grab the next to last lip. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/17816485675260447 Edit 2: So I've found an interesting little bug that is actually useful. If you have the damage animation, and use a boomerang you can still use your beak. It only works when you take damage though, but it opens up some shortcuts, because even though it makes the boomerang invisible, it is still going through it's normal trajectory. Now I'm considering potential areas where I could possibly take damage on purpose, when it involves boomerangs. This could also be useful in other levels. An interesting idea I have is since the lip can make you move around very fast, the boomerang might have trouble catching up to you, and could potentially be manipulated through the course to pick up lips. It's tough because the lip is invisible so I'm never quite sure where it is.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 10/4/2014 9:39 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (941)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

Okay so it appears as though I need to start the entire run over. This bug I found that deals with boomerangs and being damaged is useful in the very first level. Since the damage animation takes quite a while, there's not an incredible amount of time saved, but 24 frames saved nonetheless. The boomerang actually catches up to me faster than I expected. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/17839791472800801 Edit: I'm not going to post anymore WIP's, but I will post progress here in edits for anyone curious. So far I'm starting level 3 127 frames ahead of the old WIP. About half of that is from a better boss fight. Edit2: Finished stage 3, 186 frames ahead. I'm actually surprised I was able to save about 60 frames on this stage. I'm glad I started over.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 10/11/2014 8:34 PM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (941)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

I said I wouldn't post, but I decided to since I'm being lazy with the game this week. I promise I won't post any more improvements to keep it secretz! Level 3 complete, 186 frames ahead of the old WIP: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18005306620083313 edit(10/12/2014): Finished level 5, now 284 frames ahead of the old WIP.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 10/13/2014 1:03 AM

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solarplex

Active player (476)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

Exxonym wrote:

I said I wouldn't post, but I decided to since I'm being lazy with the game this week. I promise I won't post any more improvements to keep it secretz! Level 3 complete, 186 frames ahead of the old WIP: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18005306620083313 edit(10/12/2014): Finished level 5, now 284 frames ahead of the old WIP.

Link to video

Posted: 10/26/2014 4:54 AM

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Exonym

Editor, Experienced player (941)

Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345

It's been a while, and I've been jumping between games to try and stay interested in doing anything. Working so long on one game is frying my brain, but don't worry I'll have this game done before Christmas. I've redone up through level 7 again and so far saved 370 frames over my last WIP. Weird little tricks save frames in unexpected places, so it's more than I though I'd save. Used the boomerang/damage glitch in level 7 for a funny effect, and a time-saving one too. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18323865882562139

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

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