Interesting. Unless I'm missing something, the TAS shouldn't need to buy an Abra at Celadon, since we can T-fly a Missingno. by dying from a random encounter.
Joined: 5/9/2007
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Yeah, so forget about the catching another Pokemon thing. It's not required. I just beat the game in 18 minutes. On Pokemon Red though, so I needed more coins for Abra (and was dumb in getting it). I reckon it might go to 17 in a segmented unassisted run. Maybe even 16, but I doubt it. Good stuff though, regardless.
Yeah, so forget about the catching another Pokemon thing. It's not required. I just beat the game in 18 minutes. On Pokemon Red though, so I needed more coins for Abra (and was dumb in getting it). I reckon it might go to 17 in a segmented unassisted run. Maybe even 16, but I doubt it. Good stuff though, regardless.
Do you have a video? Or, could you post the exact route please? I'm interested in trying this out myself but I'm not sure I understand what is required to make the glitch work.
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
Sadly, I didn't record it yet. I just did a run on the emulator for testing purposes. I will record a run in the coming days though.
The route I used is heavily based on shenanagans route.
http://pastebin.com/zFqwsG4S
The only changes is that my battles are obviously better and that instead of doing a T/F twice to get the 255 item, I just catch MissingNo after using two X-items. That's it really.
Edit: I wasn't paying attention. Shenanagans did use the catching method. So I guess most time is saved from better battles and no encounters.
Interesting. Unless I'm missing something, the TAS shouldn't need to buy an Abra at Celadon, since we can T-fly a Missingno. by dying from a random encounter.
I think the Abra is necessary so we can warp back to Saffron without giving water to the guard. I don't think there are any places to use the Escape Rope in Celadon, so Abra is faster.
Also, I'm not sure this route would be faster than using the Cooltrainer glitch. However, since I can't figure out how to use the Cooltrainer glitch effectively, I'll work on this TAS instead.
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
Yeah, I had been thinking of that as well. I doubt getting a MissingNo from grass really is faster.
Wait...It's a long shot, but you could death-warp from Route 6, faint from the Dojo guy, get the sixth item x255, then walk to Celadon and get the Fresh Water.
The only issue would be getting an item that can be used in battle to get 255. Bulbasaur would be healed after Saffron and after fainting... Are there any items one can use?
Well, there's the X-Special in the tunnel between Vermillion and Cerulean.
Yeah, I had been thinking of that as well. I doubt getting a MissingNo from grass really is faster.
Wait...It's a long shot, but you could death-warp from Route 6, faint from the Dojo guy, get the sixth item x255, then walk to Celadon and get the Fresh Water.
The only issue would be getting an item that can be used in battle to get 255. Bulbasaur would be healed after Saffron and after fainting... Are there any items one can use?
Well, there's the X-Special in the tunnel between Vermillion and Cerulean.
What about a Potion? That can be used in battle, and there are several that can be easily picked up along the way. Or, if we intend to catch Missingno, we could buy a Poke Ball, duplicate it up to 129, miss once, and then catch it to end up with 255 Poke Balls. Would that work?
Joined: 5/9/2007
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Oh, you're right. That would work! Potion wouldn't be too useful because the heal at Saffron is required so Bulbausaur would be at full health. But yes, yes, the Ball would work!
And one more question, why does he wrong warp to the Hall of Fame? Can't we just change the game map so that the game switches ROM banks and then corrupt the map script pointer like the save corruption run does?
Oh, you're right. That would work! Potion wouldn't be too useful because the heal at Saffron is required so Bulbausaur would be at full health. But yes, yes, the Ball would work!
Excellent! We need that Poke Ball in the 6th item slot, so that means getting 5 other items. I think it would be best to pick up the Antidote and Potion in Viridian Forest, and buy 3 unnecessary items in the Pewter City mart before the Poke Ball.
Actually, missing a Poke Ball, then catching it does not duplicate the Poke Balls twice. You still need to use an in-Battle item to get 255 of an item.
Meerkov wrote:
The human element of the run is far more entertaining than the game itself. If it wasn't for someone lying about their record 40 years ago, I don't think we'd take a second look at this run/game.
Meh vote.
Oh well. Potion is the best item in that case, because no detour is needed to pick it up. Just need Missingno. to use Water Gun so we can use the Potion after being hit.
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
Hm, yeah, that'd be four turns.
1) Use whatever move
2) Heal Water Gun damage (128)
3) Heal Water Gun damage (127)
4) Catch (255)
I would really want to buy in Viridian, but there aren't enough items to get to 6th...so I guess:
Pick up Antidote and Potion, then buy 2 Poke Balls, Awakening, Burn Heal and Parlyz Heal.
Also, I'm not sure this route would be faster than using the Cooltrainer glitch. However, since I can't figure out how to use the Cooltrainer glitch effectively, I'll work on this TAS instead.
This is only the realtime route where Cooltrainer is very impractical; wasn't there something posted a while back about using the Brock Through Walls glitch to get into Cerulean Cave and catch a Transform user (Ditto, instead of Mew) faster than otherwise possible?
Also, I'm not sure this route would be faster than using the Cooltrainer glitch. However, since I can't figure out how to use the Cooltrainer glitch effectively, I'll work on this TAS instead.
This is only the realtime route where Cooltrainer is very impractical; wasn't there something posted a while back about using the Brock Through Walls glitch to get into Cerulean Cave and catch a Transform user (Ditto, instead of Mew) faster than otherwise possible?
Yes, and I estimate that would be faster than this route. However, I'm not very good with assembly code, so I can't plan out a route for that.
For this route, I think Blue version is faster because wild Meowth can knock out Bulbasaur with one Bite, and Meowth only appears on Route 6 in Blue.
Thomaz wrote:
I would really want to buy in Viridian, but there aren't enough items to get to 6th...so I guess:
Pick up Antidote and Potion, then buy 2 Poke Balls, Awakening, Burn Heal and Parlyz Heal.
Why Viridian? The Mart in Pewter City is less of a detour.
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
Yeah, you're right. Thing is, I figured that buying in Viridian would save you the time of having to manually set Potion to the sixth spot lol. I suppose Pewter is still faster yeah.
Hm... I just did a run with the save I had at Brock skip. Since I didn't pick up any items at all during the run aside from Antidote + Potion, I had to improvise and buy stuff in Saffron City lol. And of course, after dieing twice, I didn't have enough money for the Fresh Water... XD
Regardless, a real run would solve this issue obviously. And yeah, Blue with Meowth sounds like a great idea. Level 16 Meowth with max Attack could OHKO low defense Bulbasaur without a crit (for segmented, a crit will be easier to get though lol).
I got 17 min with this detour, so I assume that a real run would get eh, 15 maybe? Unassisted of course.
I only saved once in this run though, so perhaps 15 would be impossible to get. 16 should be possible though.
Hey everyone, decided to make an account to join all this discussion.
You are correct in saying that we can skip abra with a death warp, it would save around a minute off of the route I posted.
One other large time save is that you really want to red-bar the Missingno catch (it saves 19 seconds due to missingno's cry length)
so my thought would be to setup the death warp on route 6, get poisoned by a wild bellsprout on route 7.
Walk to the Celedon Mart and buy a greatball, a fresh water, an x speed, and an X defend.
This gets us to 6 items and we have x defends in slot 6.
We can then faint to the poison to get back into safferon. which from there we can simply encounter the missingno, use 2 x defends, get hit to redbar by sky attack, and catch it.
Then we can get underflow and warp to the end.
The only issue with this is that we would need to use a different starter because bulba's immunity to poison...
You could always death warp from a Pokemon from the Route 7 Grass instead of Fainting from Poison.
Meerkov wrote:
The human element of the run is far more entertaining than the game itself. If it wasn't for someone lying about their record 40 years ago, I don't think we'd take a second look at this run/game.
Meh vote.
Hey everyone, decided to make an account to join all this discussion.
You are correct in saying that we can skip abra with a death warp, it would save around a minute off of the route I posted.
One other large time save is that you really want to red-bar the Missingno catch (it saves 19 seconds due to missingno's cry length)
so my thought would be to setup the death warp on route 6, get poisoned by a wild bellsprout on route 7.
Walk to the Celedon Mart and buy a greatball, a fresh water, an x speed, and an X defend.
This gets us to 6 items and we have x defends in slot 6.
We can then faint to the poison to get back into safferon. which from there we can simply encounter the missingno, use 2 x defends, get hit to redbar by sky attack, and catch it.
Then we can get underflow and warp to the end.
The only issue with this is that we would need to use a different starter because bulba's immunity to poison...
Thanks for setting up an account, and that route you posted. It seems to me that skipping the long cry would require a large time sacrifice. By the current route, Bulbasaur can simply repeatedly miss with Tackle when fighting the Weedle in Bug Forest, and I can luck-manipulate it to repeatedly fail with String Shot. That will bring Bulbasaur to level 7, with the right amount of PP for each of its moves, although a wild encounter will be necessary to use select on the moves afterwards.
If the route starts with Squirtle, getting 16 PP for one move slot and 36 for the other wouldn't be possible, because Squirtle has no moves with 40 PP until level 28. If the run starts with Charmander, it would take 2 max-level Metapod or Kakuna encounters before increasing its level.
I think Bulbasaur is so much faster than the others that we'll just skip the red bar trick. Normally we don't allow it anyway because the low health warning is so annoying, but since Missingno.'s cry is also annoying I suppose it would be accepted to avoid that.
I'm speaking more from a TAS perspective.
Getting poisoned and dying while in the mart would save the entire walk back to Safferon (and we would need a way to re enter Safferon due to us not having teleport to get back)
We could also just die to a wild pokemon in the grass like meowth again, but getting poisoned would save a 45 second walk.
We also found a new way to setup the Brock through walls glitch that may make the starter not matter as much. You need a pokemon with 16 special in slot 1 of your party, and a pidgey with 8, 10, 13, 15, 16, or 17 HP remaining in slot 2.
We could possibly catch a wild level 5 pikachu (I'm almost sure they hit 16 special) and catch a pidgey on route 2.
This might be faster then the PC method ( we would Deposit bulba and pidgey in Safferon center when we heal there)
Level 7 bulbasaur can hit 16 special though so I would need to time pikachu vs bulbasaur...
Also you could just get DV's on any pokemon that would allow the Brock through walls setup to work (though I haven't looked into which DV's would work)
This would mean squirtle or charmander would be better (can get poisoned and have faster battles)
I'm speaking more from a TAS perspective.
Getting poisoned and dying while in the mart would save the entire walk back to Safferon (and we would need a way to re enter Safferon due to us not having teleport to get back)
We could also just die to a wild pokemon in the grass like meowth again, but getting poisoned would save a 45 second walk.
We also found a new way to setup the Brock through walls glitch that may make the starter not matter as much. You need a pokemon with 16 special in slot 1 of your party, and a pidgey with 8, 10, 13, 15, 16, or 17 HP remaining in slot 2.
We could possibly catch a wild level 5 pikachu (I'm almost sure they hit 16 special) and catch a pidgey on route 2.
This might be faster then the PC method ( we would Deposit bulba and pidgey in Safferon center when we heal there)
Level 7 bulbasaur can hit 16 special though so I would need to time pikachu vs bulbasaur...
That sounds like it's probably an improvement, since catching a Pidgey is much faster than wasting 10 or more Tackle misses against Weedle. A level 4 Pidgey could have 17 HP, and possibly last from the grass east of Celadon to the Fresh Water vending machines. According to this calculator, Bulbasaur can have 16 Special at level 7 while Charmander, Squirtle, and Pikachu would all need to reach level 9. Although, as you said, a Charmander with the right DVs could get past that trainer, and that would likely be faster than trying to make Bulbasaur work.
Yeah I'm thinking for like a segmented run bulbasaur + pidgey is the way to go (I'm also using this method in my speedruns)
For a TAS you would just get good DV's on charmander and use him for the run. Charm dies to meowth bite, and can get poisoned by bellsprout. I think 20 hp will be enough to make it to the fresh water floor.
I'm pretty sure wild bellsprout can have 31/32 special at level 19-21 so if that's the case we could skip the dojo fight entirely.
Might mess with this tonight lol.
I'm pretty sure wild bellsprout can have 31/32 special at level 19-21 so if that's the case we could skip the dojo fight entirely.
Might mess with this tonight lol.
Who would we fight instead? Remember, you need to fight a trainer to trigger the next stage of the Trainer-Fly glitch.
