With this I start a new side of the argument. This is for those that don't particularly care what you call these runs and want this topic to be dead. Join me.
Haha, I think it's pretty clear I joined your movement with my tongue-in-cheek suggestion 27 pages back.
Care to explain what's wrong with the terms console-run for a (gasp) run done on a console and emulator-run for a (gasp) run done on an emulator? It would separate this site from others, as we only accept emulator-runs, and sites such as the SDA and Twin Galaxies only accept console-runs. It also sums up pretty well the "tools" we use - emulators. On occasion, something else is used, but generally all things we use to make our runs are features built in to the emulator.
So now please write a detailed rebuttal which I will be too lazy to counter :P
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Some guy called Butler said something like: "Everything is what it is and not another thing"
Butler's claim is not very informative, but works fine for me. I don't care what people call these movies.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Deviance wrote:
One side argues that the term used must be a descriptive. Savestate/Slowdown Run is even more descriptive than tool-assisted speedrun, and it is exactly the same number of letters long.
Since when is "save state/slowdown run" more descriptive than "tool-assisted speedrun"? This is plain simply redundant and lacking.
It fails to recognize the actual tools that were used to create these movies;
Yet, it eagerly makes the reader aware of the fact they use save states and slowdowns--this is one step further than being an informative name.
This is an attempt to attach an explanation to a name due to its controversy, something which is redundant;
The name itself is awful to pronounce or think out loud.
The reason why the term "tool-assisted speedrun" is so proper is because of various reasons:
It acknowledges that "tools" were used by means of definition rather than description;
The term "tool" applies to the emulator; and the emulator describes techniques, such as save states and slowdown, which can be further divided into luck manipulation or other such possibilities;
We are speedrunners. The difference is that we are being "assisted". Speedruns exist for serveral purposes, all which pertain to our movies as well;
Unlike your term, "tool-assisted speedrun" is very easy to read, and doesn't have a slash, which breeds only annoyance for both sender and receiver of the term.
When making a name, we need to be informative in the sense that the name is capable of speaking for itself--whether with or without additional information. "Tool-assisted speedrun" is technically the best solution that I've heard so far, and I don't see why it's such a difficult name to accept, seen as how it's really not that bad of a name.
I got tired of this topic after the first 10 posts already. But maybe some people just need this empty discussion to waste their time a bit, who knows.
The name itself is awful to pronounce or think out loud.
say it ten times fast, and do the same with tool-assisted speedrun. Now tell me the latter is easier to pronounce. You probably think it sounds better because you are more familiar with it. Notice that using a term that sounds good is one of the arguments for which your rival Arc was pushing.
This is an attempt to attach an explanation to a name due to its controversy, something which is redundant
No, this is an attempt to demonstrate that this term, tool-assisted speedrun, and similar terms are just labels that could work equally well. This topic is just about dogmatism and various users clinging on to their pet terms.
The term "tool" applies to the emulator; and the emulator describes techniques, such as save states and slowdown, which can be further divided into luck manipulation or other such possibilities
When a person looks at the word "tool", it will then make them think of an emulator, which then make them think of techniques, which then helps them realize luck and manipulation are involved? This is a slippery slope fallacy.
Speedruns exist for serveral purposes, all which pertain to our movies as well
Speedruns exist to demonstrate players thinking on their feet, controlling their nerves while playing in one sitting, and trying recover from mistakes as they play on to finish the game. This does not pretain to our movies, so your statement is false. In addition, calling yourselves speedrunners is something pure speedrunners might find insulting. But this is for another endless forum topic we could make.
Unlike your term, "tool-assisted speedrun" is very easy to read, and doesn't have a slash, which breeds only annoyance for both sender and receiver of the term.
yes, using a dash is superior to using a slash. Why would you even argue this? Don't tell me "tool-assisted speedrun" is very easy to ready. Words like This, Topic, Is and Pointless are examples of easy words to read.
In closing, tool-assisted speedrun is a term I'd conceade to using. I'll even call them like superplays now and then. I just wish I could call this topic "locked" one day.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Deviance wrote:
say it ten times fast, and do the same with tool-assisted speedrun
TAS, TAS, TAS, TAS, TAS, TAS, TAS, TAS, TAS, TSA, no sorry, TAS. That was easy for me.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
The main obstacle here seems to be personal preference.
Still, I cannot see how someone can find "slowdown/savestate run" an attractive name. It's as if you're trying to explain the phenomenon to a hardcore speedrunner who might be totally opposed to it--as if the hasty apologies for desecrating speedruns are already being made in the name itself.
However:
Speedruns exist to demonstrate players thinking on their feet, controlling their nerves while playing in one sitting, and trying recover from mistakes as they play on to finish the game. This does not pretain to our movies, so your statement is false. In addition, calling yourselves speedrunners is something pure speedrunners might find insulting. But this is for another endless forum topic we could make.
I don't see it this way. My statement is correct in the way that both speedrunner and superplayer set out to perform a certain goal in a game in a time as fast as possible. We do so and produce highly entertaining movies. The fact that you're removing difficulty doesn't change the upper motive behind this. There's not near enough reason to put superplays in a whole different category than speedruns.
I am a speedrunner myself and have completed various runs, and am actively working on a 100% nightmare run on Quake right now, and I see it this way.
Even if I didn't, what should that matter? This is supposed to help describe our movies, and not keep die-hard speedrunners happy because they cannot accept that superplays exist. This is one extremely important thing which I think everybody should consider.
Lastly:
Words like This, Topic, Is and Pointless are examples of easy words to read.
Then please leave this topic. This is for those who want to contribute to the topic. Not for people who want to tell others they're wasting their time. We don't see it this way.
The main obstacle here seems to be personal preference.
yes, this is my main argument. As I said before, dogmatism plays a big role.
Then please leave this topic. This is for those who want to contribute to the topic. Not for people who want to tell others they're wasting their time. We don't see it this way.
There are quite a few people who have posted in this topic who think it is a waste of time. Since there has been almost no progress after ten pages of posting, there is at least some reason to believe so. I'm not saying this to belittle you, I simply believe this topic breeds a negativity that can only escalate.
Yeah, when you think about it, the "tools" really don't refer to the emulator so much as they refer to making a movie outside of normal gameplay. Some games actually implement "slowdown" or "savestates" as features. And since slowdown and savestates don't quite cover everything, I guess putting them into the name might not be adequate. But "tool" just seems too general a term to mean anything to me. (AND NO I AM NOT AN IDIOT WHO CLASSIFIES HANDS AS TOOLS) ("THEY'RE THINKING OF CHANGING THE NAME TO 'FOOL TIME' WITH 'FIM "THE FOOL MAN" FAILURE'")
Anyway, I don't want to be called a tass! I won't submit another movie if I'm going to be called a tass in the name!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
that haven't made any good Timeattack here.
Whats that got to do with it and this discussion?
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Want to comprimise? Use the term timeattack around those who are familiar with it or in places where it is defined or the context clear, but use "tas" otherwise. Examples:
"hey guys, check out this timeattack of Metroid. Even though savestates and slowdown were used, I still think it looks really cool."
"someone should timeattack this game" (on this forum)
"Here's a site with speedruns that are tool-assisted: http://bisqwit.iki...."
Personally, on my own site, even thought Time Attack is in the title, all the runs have a disclaimer explaining that tools were used to create them.
I saw him walk right through a wall in the SMB3 movie. When I tried to do the same, It didn't work.
Also, "time attack" will always be an informal name, even though I just think that it's placed in the wrong context. I still think it's best off being used to describe time trials in games such as Gran Turismo, even though they're nearly impossible to find on-line. I've actually only found three time trial videos so far.
My personal preference goes out to officially calling them "tool-assisted speedruns", and informally calling them "superplays".
Both "superplay" and "speedrun" are very general terms, so we might as well COIN one of the two for our personal use, since there's not really anything "claiming" that name at the moment.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
I still think it would be simpler if everyone just called it whatever they personally prefer. Then, when someone asks what you're talking about, you can clarify with the whole 'tool-assisted emulator-using slow-downing re-recording time-attacking...' spiel.
Eventually, we will all get used to eachothers' mannerisms. I still simply refer to the movies on this site as 'our movies' whenever I'm talking with anyone in the community. I see no problem with that, and I'm not about to start going out of my way to spell out exactly what kind of movies/how they are made/what they are made with/etc. It's not like I go to the local cinema to see "modern action-scifi thrillers recorded on digital camera deelys with special effects and actors/actresses that speak and/or move a lot". No, I go to the movies to watch "films", or maybe "movies".
That is, unless you want to go blaze a trail all over the world by referring to films as 'camera-assisted enjoymentattacks.'
Personally, I will not stop using Timeattack because of some stubborn guy that haven't made any good Timeattack here.
You are uttely typical and unimaginative. When you run out of arguments you start attacking me personally.
Hypocrite too. You haven't given even one single rational reason for your beloved term, yet you stubborningly keep using it, for no other reason than to keep your pride.
I still think it would be simpler if everyone just called it whatever they personally prefer. Then, when someone asks
But that's precisely the problem: People don't ask. They just make assumptions on the spot and start screaming "fake!".
"Hey, look at this timeattack." "It's fake!"
vs.
"Hey, look at this tool-assisted speedrun." "It's fake." "A fake tool-assisted speedrun? Meaning what?"
