Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
itsPersonnal wrote:
I'd say we're taking a break, but I don't think we'll be coming back to work on so, yeah progress has been stopped, mainly due to loading times / TASvideo rules. if we ever start it up again we'll be starting on a card that already beat the game and hopefully someone will have somewhat fixed the horrible loading times by then.
I would be happy to make a verification movie for the memory card if you would like. The load times on the other-hand, I cannot help you with.
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
Can't find any TAS for Prime, I assume one's coming eventually.
Noticed something odd today while doing a play through: because I am a huge dork, I blew open a Metroid containment tank on my way back from getting the Thermal Visor in Aether Lab. The room with the tank is full of space pirates (annoying).
Apparently there's some interesting behavior in order to facilitate a few certain cutscenes in the game...
Primarily, Metroids will 100% absolutely ignore Samus and target space pirates if there's any within range. Not sure if that's in the room or within a certain area of influence; I suspect the latter. Second, space pirates will 100% absolutely IGNORE Samus when a Metroid is around. After I cracked the tank, I stood around watching the silly pirate run to one corner of the room, cower for several seconds, then run to another corner of the room while the Metroid lazily followed it. Eventually it got it but eh.
Other pirates attacked me, briefly, before freaking out that there was a Metroid wandering into the area. So I basically just ran through the room, with a small army (there's 2 Metroid tanks) distracting the space pirates.
Odd, likely useless behavior.
So uh, I broke this games movement, there isn't a cap on the sideways speed, and because of that you can just jump sideways and pretty much infinity gain speed (not very quickly, but still). I'll upload a video in a day or two, once I have internet capable of doing so.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
SA2:B DARK STORY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Z5dvJupKM here's this
Youtube description: Yeah, so there is no cap on your sideways speed and if you R jump, then hold R and L and jump the first frame you land, you can keep all your speed, if you let go of R and L once in the air and hold up you'll gain more speed and as long as you press R and L before you land and jump first frame you'll keep all of the speed gained. In this video I didn't optimize speed as much as I could have and I didn't keep gaining speed at the end out of laziness.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
SA2:B DARK STORY
I guess my first response to that is whether it's possible to get enough speed that way to glitch through walls. (Normally you have to climb over them; admittedly, that's probably faster.)
no, I can't remember the numbers but I know MilesSMB would, you need something like 1000 or more speed to go though walls, the video on the left got to 23 speed.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
SA2:B DARK STORY
no, I can't remember the numbers but I know MilesSMB would, you need something like 1000 or more speed to go though walls, the video on the left got to 23 speed.
How many speed units are gained per jump? What's Samus' normal sideways speed? If you ended that video with 23 speed units, I'm guessing it would be "23 = starting speed + (speed gain per jump) x (# of jumps)."
Its hard to say really, mostly because I haven't put much time into testing things. All I can really tell you is that you gain significantly more speed while moving sideways in the air than you do forwards. Walking while holding L has a speed of 11.79, if you do an L jump (jumping in the air and letting go of L after ~12 frames) your speed goes up by about ~0.15 per frame and if you only do one you jump you'll land with about 15 speed, if you turn sideways during that jump you'll land with about 18 or 19 speed iirc (I don't have the dtm anymore so I can't check what I had in that video)
The more time you spend in the air the more speed you gain, so how much speed you get really depends on the room. Also uphills slow you down even if you jump first frame, but flat ground and downhill don't.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
SA2:B DARK STORY
This TAS has been abandoned for a while, and it's highly unlikely that anyone will start working on a new one until Dolphins loading problems are fixed.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
SA2:B DARK STORY
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
SA2:B DARK STORY
Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
I was actually just thinking about doing some cool "TAS Demonstration" things for Prime the other day, since a full TAS won't happen. Only thing that gets me is that (from what I understand) there aren't many/any TAS only tricks, just tricks that are only done in segmented or low% or too crazy for runs.
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Dearest itsPersonnal,
Henceforth, you are more than welcome to work on Metroid Prime. Please read below for further explanation:
<adelikat> if someone makes a good tas of metroid prime on the latest (or best) version of dolphin we have available, that isn't going to get rejected based on loading time emulation
<Ilari> I think there is transfer rate limitations, but seeking is not emulated, and if game reads from several spots on disc, it is going to be much faster without emulating seek times.
<adelikat> that will be a super baller TAS, no one is going to give 2 shits about the loading screen
<adelikat> on the other hand, if someone hacked dolphin to reduce loading times or something, then that is a case of rejection
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
that will be a super baller TAS, no one is going to give 2 shits about the loading screen
I don't think this guy understands.
Loads effect ingame play, there are no "loading screens" in this game. The game loads at every door you open and having that time sped up can completely change room strats and would save minutes over a console run.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
SA2:B DARK STORY
Do not compare TAS with speedruns! If the TAS looks great it will be published, not because the emulation of the only GC TAS emulator is so bad.
andypanther wrote:
How should loading times be emulated if they depend on physical things like the condition of the disc and the console?
We assume console and disc are on perfect conditions.
Quite frankly, anyone who currently wants to work on a TAS of this game doesn't plan on submitting it here. No one is going to play through the entire game on a dtm before starting a TAS, especially when there is still a risk of desync from doing something like that. I personally want to TAS this game, but I couldn't care less as to whether it gets published here or not. What I want is to have loads that are at least close to accurate and if that's not an option then I have no motivation to work on this TAS.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
SA2:B DARK STORY
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Risk is something you have to take into consideration when you work with Dolphin and quite frankly, I am just grateful we even have Dolphin and that it emulates a lot of games beautifully and desyncs a lot less compared with 1-2 years ago. Also, desyncs is something you almost expect upon tasing playstation, gamecube, wii, windows games because how many more things they emulate compared to a nes game. But you are not the man for this, got it.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Do not compare TAS with speedruns! If the TAS looks great it will be published, not because the emulation of the only GC TAS emulator is so bad.
I am inclined to agree with this. Timings are not, and probably never will be, perfect for systems such as this.
Anything is better than nothing. I the result is that it will produce apples and orange which cannot be compared to another, then that's a shame, but it should not stop someone from creating a high-quality work.
Yeah, cfg loader mod sped up all the Gamecube games I've played by a noticeable margin (I haven't played anything loading intensive, mostly Melee, Wind Waker and the Mario Partys, but even so). The Wii games that I've played both on cfg and in Dolphin (Brawl, Kirby's RTD) had very similar load times.
That's interesting to hear. I'm sure the load times are also dependent upon the speed of the HDD or SD used too, but you saying they're faster is good. If we can get load times to be consistent, then it might lead to GC/Wii console verifications!!! :o
It seems similar conditions can be done on console too.
No one is going to play through the entire game on a dtm before starting a TAS, especially when there is still a risk of desync from doing something like that.
Unless Metroid Prime itself has known desync issues, this shouldn't happen if you're using the correct emulator settings.
I like how many people in this thread have no idea what they're talking about with regards to loading times for mp1 (and mp2 i guess) TASing <_<
It affects direct gameplay. It's not just WAITING SCREENS and stuff. If you're out of bounds, for example, fastest way is to reach the aether while OoB and get into a room before it's loaded, so it loads around you. This is impossible on emulator. Things like that. I'm sure itspersonnal can explain more since, you know, I'm pretty sure he knows more than 99% of people here about TASing metroid prime <_<
Granted, I don't think there'd be a problem with a "TAS for fun" or a "theory TAS" but there will basically never be a serious full-game TAS for this game (or prime 2+3) because of how much loading times affect gameplay, not until dolphin loading times is close to accurate (which isn't gonna be for a long time, if it's gonna happen)
