over 120 replies to this topic and no progress. Choosing a name for these runs depends more on doggedness than anything else. This topic is a vortex, stay away.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Case Closed!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Case Re-opened.
How about just “Savestate run”?
- It’s more specific than Timeattack or TAS; “Savestate” vs “Tool”.
- By taking the “speed” part out, it effectively describes every run on the site; not all videos are aiming for fastest time. And..
- it will no longer be confused with a legitimate “Speedrun” or “Speed run”.
- Generally, the use of savestates automatically disqualifies a run from being a legitimate human record, so there’s another hint.
- Even if people don’t know what a “savestate” is, they should know what a “save” is. That should be good enough for them to get the idea. And before you argue, if there are people who don’t know what savestates or emulators are, then they sure as hell also won’t know what Tools are being used in a Tool-assisted speedrun.
Just think of the pros and cons for each of the terms. “Savestate run” has a lot of pros.
I used to use Timeattack to describe these runs, but I realize that Timeattack doesn’t define or describe anything about them, other than it’s a speedrun or done in some kind of Time attack mode. Superplay can mean several kinds of great gaming accomplishments. Tool-assisted speedrun has always been pretty vague in my opinion, but if you insist on using it, why not just call it “Tool-assisted run”. Just take the word “speed” out and you can avoid any confusion. Labeling them as speedruns wouldn’t be correct anyway because they’re not all speedruns.
Whatever term is decided on, it doesn’t really matter to me. Sometimes when I’m on other boards, I call them “Emulator runs with re-records and slowmo” or “Perfect simulated speedruns” to make sure there’s no confusion of what I’m talking about. I mean, if you guys can post arguments several paragraphs long, then one or two extra words wouldn’t be too hard, at least on boards that are unfamiliar with these. BTW, there’s another idea for a term: “Perfect Simulated Speedrun”(PSS) or “Perfect Simulated Run”(PSR) or “Simulated Perfect Speedrun”(SPS) or “Simulated Perfect Run”(SPR) or just “Simulated Speedrun”. That might be even better than savestate run. What do you guys think?
Aside from all of that, I also like the “What if? run”. I’d want to use it if everyone knew what it was referring to.
Joined: 7/28/2004
Posts: 135
Location: Finland Realms
So far I like the "Tool-Assisted xxxxx" or "Tool-Assisted xxxxx[run]" best, added some descriptive term for the "xxxxx". "Speed" is not that good at all. Something else.
wow pointless topic.
"two women were arguing over what color a sweater was. One said teal. The other said sky blue. When they asked the store clerk he said. "Its a blue. ""
You can call them whatever you want. I call them time-attacks. Alot of the videos try to "attack" the length of the game. Speedruns have been the name of the compitiion of human play attacks.
I could make a tetris "score attack" or a contra "pacafist attack" They still aim at time as an objective.
By leaving the tool-assisted header, all we do is tell them. "HEY!!! We used this list of stuff to become super"
People who are bugged by this, bug me. Just like forum "grammer and spelling whores" We are not all perfect.
(steps off the podium.)
a folk song written in honor of this thread and the "discussion" thats taken place would be nice... or maybe its just that much funnier in my head when put to banjos and mandolins.
Joined: 7/28/2004
Posts: 135
Location: Finland Realms
ArcadicGamer wrote:
"two women were arguing over what color a sweater was. One said teal. The other said sky blue. When they asked the store clerk he said. "Its a blue. ""
What a pointless comparation. Colour of the sweater makes no difference neither in the processing or on the quality of the sweater.
Tool-assisted run and run without tools differ on making and on quality.
It matters to the women, thus it is important. What matters to you is the name, apparently, not wether or not these runs are "cheated" (zOMG).
Seriously, close this topic already. Let it die. You cannot collectively change the opinions of an entire forum, espcially so if that forum doesn't care.
"We observe the behaviour of simple folk, and derive pleasure from their defects."
-Aristotle - Book of Humour
Here's a second idea, as an alternative to my already-suggested "Demonstrations" and "Tool-Assisted Demonstrations".
We have "single-segment" and "multi-segment" runs, right? And the difference is that a multi-segment run is re-recorded, but only at specific points (usually savepoints or the beginnings of levels, etc). What we do here is a form of multi-segment run, but with no restrictions regarding the number of segments or where they can be. So the obvious solution is to call them "infinite-segment" runs.
Boon: "Infinite-Segment" can describe runs that aren't time attacks. You can just as easily have an infinite-segment score attack, an infinite-segment aesthetic form, an infinite-segment glitch demonstration, etc.
Bane: Those unfamiliar with the SS/MS distinction will be similarly confused by the term IS. But this should not be too much of a problem.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
So the obvious solution is to call them "infinite-segment" runs.
But there aren't really infinite segments, or even anything comparable to the number of re-records. Suppose there's a movie that's 1000 frames long, and you do 5 frames at a time, and you retry each 5 frame segment 100000000 times. It's still only 200 segments.
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 688
Location: WA State, USA
Lets just settle at "Runs of video games in which the author(s) of them made them in emulators and abused several of the emulator's features such as slow down, savestates, and various other tools to produce something that people who don't read the FAQ will claim to be real and post them on various forums/blogs/sites ala Morimoto's famous 11 minute SMB3 run".
RoVGIWtAoTMTIE&ASotEFSASDSAVOTTPSTPWDRtFWCTBR&PTOVFBSAMF11MSRs
The previous acronym can be shortened to:
R&A&Ps
Which can be shortened to:
RAPs
Nach wrote:
I also used to wake up every morning, open my curtains, and see the twin towers. And then one day, wasn't able to anymore, I'll never forget that.
So the obvious solution is to call them "infinite-segment" runs.
But there aren't really infinite segments, or even anything comparable to the number of re-records. Suppose there's a movie that's 1000 frames long, and you do 5 frames at a time, and you retry each 5 frame segment 100000000 times. It's still only 200 segments.
I smell BS semantics again! Since infinity isn't even a number, your numerical comparison was meaningless before you even started. (Nothing is comparable to infinity ... it's not even a number. And please, no one respond with unrelated BS about the extended complex plane or transfinite numbers.) Boco's qualitative comparison is an apt one, though. Emulated runs are indeed infinitely segmented, or have the potential to be so, since they can be segmented to the maximum temporal resolution attainable by the hardware being emulated. Despite the technical accuracy of Boco's nomenclature, however, it's still probably a poor choice of a name since it doesn't mean anything to someone the concept hasn't been explained to yet.
So the obvious solution is to call them "infinite-segment" runs.
If anything, it would be "freely segmented run" because there can't be infinite segments.
However, that's not a good term. Firstly, it does not account for slowdowns (including pause and frame advance). Segmented speedruns are made at regular speeds, and "freely segmented" would suggest that it has been made at regular speed, just using savestates freely. Which is not the case, of course.
Secondly, "tool-assisted speedrun" is an established term, "freely segmented run" isn't.
Tass is just another word for Vis, though Tass is much more valuable (at least that's the impression that I get maybe it's only because the timescale is so different).
That aside, I think ore looking should be done in the "demo" side of my suggestion rather than the "infinite" side. Or ignore it, either works.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
True. To mean a run-against-the-clock mode in some games.
Tool-assisted speedrun might be a newer term, but still much older than these videos here.
If the age of a term is the criteria, then we should go for something older. How about "gameplay"? Or perhaps just "game". Yes, let's redefine "game" to mean what we are doing in these videos. That should clear up everything.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Table layouts are more established than DIV layouts as well, but they're still deprecated because it's for the best.
You must always look at the long run, not the short run.
Table layouts are more established than DIV layouts as well, but they're still deprecated because it's for the best.
You must always look at the long run, not the short run.
I don't understand your point. There are rational, valid reasons to prefer divs for layouting over tables. However, I have yet to hear even one single rational, logical, valid reason to prefer "timeattack" over "tool-assisted speedrun". You are implying that "timeattack" is a better term. Can you give even one single argument?
The only arguments I have heard are ridiculous and stupid (such as for example "timeattack is not the same as time attack").
What is happening here is resistance to change, that's all. "Timeattack" was the term you first heard and started using it. Only much later you heard of the other term, "tool-assisted speedrun" and now you are resisting to change. Too bad that the original use of "timeattack" in relation to these videos was just plain wrong.
Why? Because I don't simply accept the usage of wrong terminology? Because I find it questionable that people are trying to force new meanings to old words, causing potential confusion?
Why is it so hard to simply accept that Morimoto was wrong when he used the term "timeattack" to name his videos? Is Morimoto a god who is almighty and always right and should be worshipped?
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Warp wrote:
Omega wrote:
Table layouts are more established than DIV layouts as well, but they're still deprecated because it's for the best.
You must always look at the long run, not the short run.
I don't understand your point. There are rational, valid reasons to prefer divs for layouting over tables. However, I have yet to hear even one single rational, logical, valid reason to prefer "timeattack" over "tool-assisted speedrun". You are implying that "timeattack" is a better term. Can you give even one single argument?
No, no, no.
I'm trying to further YOUR point.
Div layouts are better than table layouts, but table layouts are more established. This is supposed to be an analogy for this topic.
The term "tool-assisted speedrun" is more accurate and describing than the term "time attack", but the problem is that the latter is more established.
However, as with div layouts, they should be used -- table layouts are deprecated for good reason.
