So at this point i should ask, did anyone test if getting the Reserve Tank before the two Missile Packs is slower than the usual way?
I don't think so. I think there's almost no chance that it would be faster, but I'll test it.
EDIT: I'm actually pretty sure that I did try it the last time I made the run. I tested both methods now and taking the R-tank first was 1 frame slower, and it felt like I had gotten the exact same result before. Anyway, managed to save 14 frames or so over the test I did of the new route in the super missile room.
Thanks for testing. Man, 14 frames just in that area is great! These small savings here and there will make a big difference in the end. So you're going till Brinstar shaft and then decide which route to take?
Yeah. I really don't know if going for the PB's before Kraid/Norfair is viable at all though, but it's hard to test for.
EDIT: Though considering the detour and the loss of not having speedbooster at Kraids, it seems really unlikely that it would save time unless it takes excessively long to regain enough health at the pipe bugs before Wave Beam.
Reached Norfair. I figure skipping to fill the R-tank at all and do a double refill on the pipebugs before going to the speedbooster might be the best, as recharging on the R-tank costs 1 frame per energy, although if it looks like it's possible to do one round less of refilling with a filled/semi-filled R-tank it could be worth redoing.
bkm
Ingame. Which means that energy could be refilled manually, which I forgot about. That should probably remove one round of refilling at the pipebugs with a completely full R-tank.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
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Yeah that is what I was gonna say. It would be 1 more pause screen, but would save a huge chunk of in-game time. 2 pause screens total by my count, which really isn't bad at all.
I just watched the run so far, and I am amazed as usual with how you can produce so quickly and achieve such a high level of optimization at the same time.
Well several large parts of the run so far have already been optimized to a level where I can't think of any possible improvement, so all of those can be done rather quickly as it's only a matter of matching what already exists. Progress is probably going to get a lot slower soon :P
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Maybe the trick where you press left and right rapidly while the red block below get blown away, which allows you to reach maximum falling speed without needing to jump?
Yeah, what hero said. I compared the bkm file with saturn's rbo and his strategy was around 31 frames faster.
Btw, are you going to collect the Missile Pack in the bubble room earlier to pick up the health drop from the waver?
Thanks for pointing that out, that was a pretty big miss.
I think I'm picking up the missile early. The extra health and the missile pickup itself could be pretty important although it's hard to know if it'll end up being essential, I'll have what happens when picking up Wave. Does anyone remember the time difference between getting it late and early?
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
I don't remember if it was ever timed. Though in my view, I don't see how it could be slower to get it early. When you consider that there is less travel from the missile to the center of the room as compared from the missile to the left hand door.
I really think it should be tested. When you fall from the left side to the right side, it's possible to have enough speed to reach the passage to the Missile pack faster. Also, when falling to the ground, you can morph in mid air to land a power bomb to open the shortcut in the left while bouncing to the right. That will probably make it faster. If possible to avoid the power bomb blast to kill the waver in the right, when coming back from the missile pack chamber you can use it to damage boost.
Now, don't know if this is the case, but let's say collecting it later is 1 second faster, you can use this one second to collect maybe more than just one health in other place.
Regarding route, I thought I'd chime in since I've done a lot of testing on console routes. I discovered an error in my spreadsheet a while ago that was giving some bad times, however I've resolved that and things are looking a bit better.
That said, from my tests, the best overall route applicable to this run seems to be go up red Brinstar, do WS, go to the gauntlet, then go down blue Brinstar, do Maridia and lower Norfair, and finally go up green Brinstar. I know it sounds a little awkward to go down blue Brinstar, but the difference in time is pretty minimal. This route has INSANE PB requirements, but in a TAS, I think it can be done.
One other thing I'd recommend doing is getting Ice Beam before leaving Norfair the first time, especially since you're focused on game time. The Springball glitch by itself saves quite a bit of time, more so if you count the extra door transition. Since it is game time-oriented, you don't care about having to change weapons either.
Unfortunately, my computer is sufficiently old that I can't power SNESHawk to more than 40 FPS, so I'm waiting on WIP encodes and/or the finished movie. But I'm really looking forward to it.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Dessyreqt wrote:
Regarding route, I thought I'd chime in since I've done a lot of testing on console routes. I discovered an error in my spreadsheet a while ago that was giving some bad times, however I've resolved that and things are looking a bit better.
That said, from my tests, the best overall route applicable to this run seems to be go up red Brinstar, do WS, go to the gauntlet, then go down blue Brinstar, do Maridia and lower Norfair, and finally go up green Brinstar. I know it sounds a little awkward to go down blue Brinstar, but the difference in time is pretty minimal. This route has INSANE PB requirements, but in a TAS, I think it can be done.
One other thing I'd recommend doing is getting Ice Beam before leaving Norfair the first time, especially since you're focused on game time. The Springball glitch by itself saves quite a bit of time, more so if you count the extra door transition. Since it is game time-oriented, you don't care about having to change weapons either.
I am having trouble understanding where any time would be saved by going down blue brinstar. To me it seems that every room would be a wash with the exception that you would need to fall down the old tourian escape shaft 2 additional times, which would add a ridiculous amount of time to the run. Also, not having the screw attack for blue brinstar is way worse than not having the screw attack for pink brinstar. I could be wrong though, so if you wouldn't mind, can you explain in greater detail where time would be saved?
As for the ice beam, I can only think of 1-2 places where it would save time. Of course as you mention, the spring ball area is the biggest. Again in this case, I cannot see how the cost of doing the ice speed gate room twice is less than the time saved having the ice beam early.
I'm beginning to get somewhat unsure of early wave/charge again. It's possible that there has to be 3 more rounds of refilling at the pipebugs compared to the old run, which would put the total deficit at about 15 seconds for getting charge/wave/refilling. That seems like quite a bit to overcome, even with all the new strategies.
15 seconds more than my old run, but not just refilling. It's 5 seconds for Charge, 5 for Wave and 5 for refilling (if it does take 3 more rounds than my old run).
