Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Very nice use of the pseudo screw attack there. I really love that Maridia damage boost.
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Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Don't know if this is useful or not, but anyway: smv Just ignore the Gravity Suit.
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Was playing around and found this strange stuff. Don't know if it is known or not, but anyway. smv Edit: Also some small timesavers: 4 in-game frames saved in Maridia. Maridia Also 2 in-game frames and 4 realtime frames saved in Brinstar. Brinstar
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Wow, that grapple beam thing is weird. I am trying to think of practical applications for it, but unless it enable samus to clip through walls, I don't see where it could save time. I also like the nice little timesavers you posted. These types of things add up big throughout the course of a run.
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Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Yeah, it's pretty strange. I wonder if that only happens in that particular place. It seems like if the ceiling was just one block height samus could go through it without problems, given that her entire body was inside it. She couldn't keep up using that grapple because there was still ceiling above her. As soon as that happened i wondered it if that could happen in other places where it could be useful, like the ceiling before Spring Ball or others like GT ceiling that protects the Missile Pack. If that can be done in the Power Bomb room when leaving LN, if Samus can get at least a bit inside the ceiling, a turn around could be used to destroy the blocks and get a shortcut. Anyway, i'm just dreaming here.
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
I am gonna test that PB pack area in LN, see if any magic can happen. Edit: Well it is certainly not unique to that one place in kraid's area. After about 1 minute of searching I found another spot it works in. I imagine these are all over the place. Just need to find one that contains one single ceiling block to test if clipping is possible. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/572551019/GRAPPLW.smv
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Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Interesting. Also, in the smv you posted, after the glitch, Samus falls pretty fast.
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
yeah, I am thinking we may find a use for this somewhere.
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Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
If we could understand "WHY" this happens, it could be easier know where it can be used and then find where it can save time if anywhere.
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
I am guessing it is caused by some left overs in the coding. I scoured a good portion of the game with turbo firing the grapple beam, and I only managed to find 1 more location where this occurs. The lava rising room with the little mini volcanoes in Norfair. I guess this wont be of much use after all :/
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Former player
Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 67
SMILE gives some clues on how the grapple glitch works. In SMILE, scroll blocks are depicted by red circles containing the letter S and arrow blocks can be used to extend the reach of scroll blocks. Normally, when Samus steps on a scroll block or any of the arrows connected to it, it's programmed to lock or unlock a section of a room and allow the camera to scroll into that section. For some reason, when vertical arrows connected to scroll blocks don't keep going until they reach a solid block, it causes problems with grapple. The first image is from a clean rom. Samus must be touching the column that the circled scroll blocks are in, even if it's only by one pixel. If you remove those scroll blocks, it completely stops the glitch from working. The glitch normally doesn't work while Samus is standing in the other two columns of scroll blocks, but removing the top two arrows on the rightmost one so that it looks like the second image causes the glitch to work in that column too. One of the programmers probably puked on the room inside Kraid's lair. I have very limited knowledge of how SMILE works, but I think I see the problem. This image doesn't show it, but SMILE shows certain blocks in the area as horizontal / vertical blocks. I think these can be used for the same purpose as the red arrows from the first two images. If the arrows had been used instead, it would've looked like this: This is consistent with what I found in the other room. The glitch works here because the chain of scroll blocks depicted by the blue arrow doesn't keep going until it reaches a solid block; it just collides with the green arrow instead. Removing the vertical/horizontal blocks also stops the glitch from working here.
P.JBoy
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Editor
Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 850
Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!
Those S circles are scroll PLM's, and for some reason you can grapple them, a more widely known place people find this is in the Crateria Mainstreet in two places (see here), this can be used to get through a platform, but I doubt it's of any use. The glitch only works on the top scroll of a vertical line of scrolls (as far as I know), things like those upwards arrows or tile extenders (like in the Kraid puke room) are what I mean.
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
PJ, when I start playing your video, in the first frame, there are different colors of blocks all around, as you were using a script to show the blocks "hitbox". Is it a lua script and if so, can you post it?
P.JBoy
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Editor
Joined: 3/25/2006
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Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!
Interesting that the SMV does that o_O Here's a link, the source is fairly clean
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Thank you for the detailed explanations Taco and P.JBoy. It is much appreciated. P.JBoy, did you create that lua script yourself?
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P.JBoy
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Editor
Joined: 3/25/2006
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Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!
Yeah I did
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
That's a really nice script. Do you have any plans on implementing more features? It would be awesome to have a universal lua script for making Super Metroid TASes. Some examples I was thinking of would be: - Including the bomb count down timer for regular/ power bombs as a little number in their hitbox. - Including samus' speed (running, walking morphball, etc..) as a little number in the corner of her hit box. The booster level could go into another corner. Falling/jumping speed can go in a different corner. - Damage/cooldown (invincibility) counter for Samus - Cooldown counter for shinesparks - Charge beam counter - On screen clocks for in-game minutes/seconds/frames Would you, or anyone for that matter, be willing to make a script that includes these? If not, I may take a crack at it myself, even though I suck at coding :P I usually use Snes9x watch tool when making TASes, but since that tool does not work with Bizhawk, I think a LUA scripts may be the best way to go.
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P.JBoy
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Editor
Joined: 3/25/2006
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Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!
I tried adding something more complex a while ago, but it never came to fruition; since then I've never really planned to upgrade the script. I could add those things you listed quite easily
Skilled player (1443)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
That would be very awesome. It's nice to keep the external watch as small as possible.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Sorry i didn't thank you before, Taco, but i really apreciate you tested that glitch and took the time to post it in details. Thank you! P.J., thanks for posting the script and congratulations for the great work!
P.JBoy
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Joined: 3/25/2006
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Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!
Ok, I've update the script (same link) with the bomb count, speeds, charge beam counter, the booster counter, the shine timer and in-game timer, but not the shinespark cooldown (which I can't find a timer for). For invincibility, I decided to have the script show the recoil timer for Samus before showing the invincibility timer, but that can be removed if undesirable
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
wow, that script is incredible. Thanks so much for implementing those. I also like the way you added the recoil counter. It is a perfect way to know how many frames are left before a damage boost can no longer be executed.
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Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Thanks for implementing the script, P.J.! Something i aways wanted to know, if anyone knows the answer: Was the doors in Ceres Station supposed to be destroyed? I mean, if you use the reset glitch and return to Ceres with PBs you can destroy them, but you were not supposed to have PBs in Ceres and it seems to be the only way to destroy them, so technically you were not supposed to be able to destroy the doors.
Joined: 2/23/2013
Posts: 2
Actually, it's because pretty much all enemies are vulnerable to power bombs, and the ceres doors are coded as enemies within the games code.
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Another timesaver in the 100% run due to having wavebeam: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1612322712/kraid_exit.smv
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