http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9rnuIvzR9I
Really awesome Ice Cavern 100% TAS by Bloob. Worth mentioning he does it based on normal 100% rules (not 100% IL rules), so he only gets the dungeon item, gold skulltulas and heart piece.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3518
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Wow that was absolutely beautiful. I think that is the closest we will get to a 100% run :) Unless this sparks interest for Bloob to start working on a full run. Is Mupen friendlier towards Ocarina of Time compared to Majora's Mask?
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Wow that was absolutely beautiful. I think that is the closest we will get to a 100% run :) Unless this sparks interest for Bloob to start working on a full run. Is Mupen friendlier towards Ocarina of Time compared to Majora's Mask?
OOOOOOOOH Yes my friend, it is. Route planning OoT 100% would also be a lot easier compared to MM, but OoT 100% in general shouldn't be as good as MM 100% especially due to the lack on bombchus you have in OoT, but at least it's more realistic.
Wow that was absolutely beautiful. I think that is the closest we will get to a 100% run :) Unless this sparks interest for Bloob to start working on a full run. Is Mupen friendlier towards Ocarina of Time compared to Majora's Mask?
There is very little interest in a 100% OoT run AFAIK. For starters there is arguments as to what exactly a 100% run is and what restictions should be put on it. Aside, much of the side quests are boring and dull.
There is very little interest in a 100% OoT run AFAIK. For starters there is arguments as to what exactly a 100% run is and what restictions should be put on it. Aside, much of the side quests are boring and dull.
There already is a good 100% definition by ZSR:
- All C-items
- All equipment
- Only the highest capacity upgrades (this means goron bracelets, silver gauntlets and silver scale are skipped)
- Everything on the status screen (skulltulas, quest items, songs)
- All hearts
- All fairy upgrades
It doesn't include 100% in the dungeons, which means that maps, compasses and boss keys are skipped.
Would it be that hard to find a good route? The RTA route would certainly need to be modified, but it wouldn't nearly be as complicated to do as MM 100%.
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Would it be that hard to find a good route? The RTA route would certainly need to be modified, but it wouldn't nearly be as complicated to do as MM 100%.
ZFG keeps working on his 100% route. I think it could be a good base to work on.
Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
Don't forget heart piece duping
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
Why? RBA sucks. It's almost as bad as the x-ray glitch in Super Metroid. Nobody wants to see Link catching bugs 24/7.
If we allow RBA in a 100%, we might as well allow skulltula duplication :P
Well of course skulltula duping is allowed. The problem is, that doesn't get you out of getting the other 99. Duplicating skulltulas only gives you multiple of a single skulltula, it doesn't give you other skulltulas. Just like getting two spirit medallions doesn't get out out of getting forest medallion. The goal isn't to get 100 total skulltulas, it's to get all of the 100 skulltulas. Just like the goal is not to get 20 hearts, but to get all of the heart containers, and the 36 (intended) heart pieces. Getting the 37th heart piece could allow you to get 20 hearts without duping heart pieces, and while skipping one of the others, but that's not allowed, because the goal is to get the 36 intended heart pieces, not to get 20 hearts total.
RBA does something entirely different. The way i see it, it doesn't matter how you acquire an item, so long as it is actually acquired.
How much would RBA even allow you to skip anyway? You can't skip dungeons with it, as you'd lose light medallion. Without looking into it to much, i'd guess infinite bombchus would be the biggest time saver from rba...
Well of course skulltula duping is allowed. The problem is, that doesn't get you out of getting the other 99. Duplicating skulltulas only gives you multiple of a single skulltula, it doesn't give you other skulltulas. Just like getting two spirit medallions doesn't get out out of getting forest medallion. The goal isn't to get 100 total skulltulas, it's to get all of the 100 skulltulas. Just like the goal is not to get 20 hearts, but to get all of the heart containers, and the 36 (intended) heart pieces. Getting the 37th heart piece could allow you to get 20 hearts without duping heart pieces, and while skipping one of the others, but that's not allowed, because the goal is to get the 36 intended heart pieces, not to get 20 hearts total.
RBA does something entirely different. The way i see it, it doesn't matter how you acquire an item, so long as it is actually acquired.
I don't see much difference between grabbing a duplicate skulltula to avoid having to get a "legitimate" one and getting a C-item or something through RBA to avoid having to get it from its treasure chest or whatever. In both cases the "real" one is still left there, uncollected. Or does the chest magically empty itself if you hack the item into your inventory? I don't actually know but I'd guess it doesn't.
Well of course skulltula duping is allowed. The problem is, that doesn't get you out of getting the other 99. Duplicating skulltulas only gives you multiple of a single skulltula, it doesn't give you other skulltulas. Just like getting two spirit medallions doesn't get out out of getting forest medallion. The goal isn't to get 100 total skulltulas, it's to get all of the 100 skulltulas. Just like the goal is not to get 20 hearts, but to get all of the heart containers, and the 36 (intended) heart pieces. Getting the 37th heart piece could allow you to get 20 hearts without duping heart pieces, and while skipping one of the others, but that's not allowed, because the goal is to get the 36 intended heart pieces, not to get 20 hearts total.
RBA does something entirely different. The way i see it, it doesn't matter how you acquire an item, so long as it is actually acquired.
I don't see much difference between grabbing a duplicate skulltula to avoid having to get a "legitimate" one and getting a C-item or something through RBA to avoid having to get it from its treasure chest or whatever. In both cases the "real" one is still left there, uncollected. Or does the chest magically empty itself if you hack the item into your inventory? I don't actually know but I'd guess it doesn't.
Because the skulltula you are getting is a completely different one than the one you are skipping. If you could make the game think a specific skulltula was collected without actually collecting it, then i would see no reason not to do that.
The collected skulltulas (their location once you collectedc them) appears somewhere on the map in the inventory (maybe only in the dungeons) when you've collected them. So Skulltula duping is definitely not an option.
There are 2 basic entire different ways to define 100%:
1) Collect everything collectable
2) Make your Inventory Screen 100%
In both cases you have to collect all skulltulas due to what I said above. In definition 2 we could RBA a lot of stuff, like all medaillons and later on use a Wrong Warp into the Light Medaillon cutscene to get this medaillon back. We can dupe hearts, so collecting heart pieces wouldn't be nescassary either. The Child Dungeons and a lot of Songs could be skipped as well. So all in all all temples apart from one would be skipped. This one temple would be used for the Wrong Warp to the Light Medaillon (As far as I can tell Fire Temple has to be used for this).
You could also RBA Tunics and some stuff using RBA with some Masks on c-right, but I can't remember what exactly gives you what stuff. Of course you would also have infinite bombchus resulting in a bombchu madness all over the place.
I guess using this definition and a shitload of RBA it should be possible to beat the game 100% in around 2 hours.
One problem, though:
I remember trying Heart Piece dupe in Lost Woods using Mupen and it crashed for me. Maybe this is impossible using the brilliantness of Mupen, who knows.
You can't skip dungeons with it, as you'd lose light medallion.
You can get light medallion back by wrong warping from fire temple into the 'got master sword' cutscene where you first get the light medallion. (this is used in 'All Medallions' category to skip beating a bunch of dungeons)
Oh, i didn't know about the ww to get light medallion.
And even if you were to define 100% in a way that precludes using rba to obtain items, it could still be used for bombchus. Banning RBA entirely just seems silly. If you don't want to obtain items and such with it, then define the goal in a way that doesn't allow it, don't ban RBA.
Because the skulltula you are getting is a completely different one than the one you are skipping.
But the c-item you're getting is ALSO a completely different one than the one you skip, as evidenced by the fact that the skipped one is still there in its chest! (again, please correct me if I'm wrong on this)
The group of us that banned RBA (at the time it was me, Runnerguy2489, ZFG & Cafde) did it in attempt to create a less arbitrary definition for real time runs. It holds no weight for a TAS, however. In fact, I would be disappointed if maps/compasses/boss keys weren't gotten in a 100% TAS. It's skipping out on so many cool strategies and potential tricks that could only enhance the TAS. :)
Joined: 7/12/2009
Posts: 181
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Based on what Pheenoh said, could the OoT 100% TAS definition be based on game memory values when you reach the credits?
Basically it'll be "You must have X/Y/Z/A/B/C when you reach the credits", but with access to the memory we can enforce even things not easily verified in console, like Map/Compass/Bosskey.
How much would RBA even allow you to skip anyway? You can't skip dungeons with it, as you'd lose light medallion. Without looking into it to much, i'd guess infinite bombchus would be the biggest time saver from rba...
You can get the light medallion back with FWWW. See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0LqjrkpZ1A
Edit: Ah damn too late. Well at least I linked a video XD
Just do play devils advocate: The definition of OoT 100% is to get everything in the main inventory and status screen. That was always the reason given, why dungeon items like the compass, map and BK don't have to be collected.
That means by it's very definition it doesn't matter what you actually collected, but what the menu shows. Everything else are artificial restrictions. We can ofcourse set these restrictions, but let's not pretend that they are in any way natural to the category.
The collected skulltulas (their location once you collectedc them) appears somewhere on the map in the inventory (maybe only in the dungeons) when you've collected them. So Skulltula duping is definitely not an option.
There are 2 basic entire different ways to define 100%:
1) Collect everything collectable
2) Make your Inventory Screen 100%
In both cases you have to collect all skulltulas due to what I said above. In definition 2 we could RBA a lot of stuff, like all medaillons and later on use a Wrong Warp into the Light Medaillon cutscene to get this medaillon back. We can dupe hearts, so collecting heart pieces wouldn't be nescassary either. The Child Dungeons and a lot of Songs could be skipped as well. So all in all all temples apart from one would be skipped. This one temple would be used for the Wrong Warp to the Light Medaillon (As far as I can tell Fire Temple has to be used for this).
You could also RBA Tunics and some stuff using RBA with some Masks on c-right, but I can't remember what exactly gives you what stuff. Of course you would also have infinite bombchus resulting in a bombchu madness all over the place.
I guess using this definition and a shitload of RBA it should be possible to beat the game 100% in around 2 hours.
One problem, though:
I remember trying Heart Piece dupe in Lost Woods using Mupen and it crashed for me. Maybe this is impossible using the brilliantness of Mupen, who knows.
Well, the typical definition of 100% is to collect every item, or collectible, in the game, so the first definition makes sense.
The second makes no sense at all, because you could theoretically just cheat somehow to fill it up.
Also, considering the entertainment value, the second definition would be boring. Some wrong warps here and there and some duplication is always nice, but when seen done a hundred times, it just becomes boring. RBA is cool, but when it's seen done repeatedly to acquire stuff instead of venturing into dungeons, it quickly becomes boring.
The problem with the first one is, of course, the definition of collectible. What is a collectible? Is a heart collectible (not heart container)? Are skulltulas collectible? Most would argue that finite items should be collectibles (gold skultulas, heart containers, etc). But that is just really too vague for all games, so the typical definition is something like an item that counts toward something permanently visible in the game. That would include gold skulltulas and heart containers, but not dungeon items such as keys, etc.
Anyway, in my own opinion, the TAS should aim to be as entertaining as possible, and what better way to do that than to collect all items visible in the status screen and dungeon items?
Just my thought on the whole.
Maybe everything that stays gone when you get it should be collected? Every single little treasure chest. Oh and the records for the minigames must of course be maxed out, too.
