This is probably a stupid question to ask, because I don't want to kill your motivation, but are all the bosses going to be this hard to manipulate?
They're a pain since it's not simply getting the RNG moved to the desired value before going into the boss fight.
The RNG gets shifted by touching goal ring at a certain spot, but if you advance through the screens to get to the boss too fast, it always rolls the RNG to a default value (which is different for each boss, might be desirable for some even). There's 4-5 different results for each boss just on this alone (5 for LS boss).
Once you get that out of the way, then there's still manipulation that needs to be done in the fight that's determined by positioning in relation to the boss. Sometimes "it" will make it's mind up at different times depending on position, making it more of a pain.
I have been working the run somewhat. I improved LS2 by 4 frames, woohoo lol.
So I have kinda, somewhat, not really, looked into doing some 'amateur' for lack of a better term, experimented tasing recently.
Nothing to do with this game yet... just wanted to offer my services in case a brain dead, brute force, frame by frame input check could get you through this road block.
Hey, I appreciate that offer, I might take you up on it when I come back to TASing this. Once classes start up, I'll probably work on it again lol. For some reason, I'm only motivated when I'm really busy cause I don't have the time.
Between the bosses, and lag frames being created when loading savestates at extreme speeds (happens with or without Bus Timing ticked, 0.9.7 + 0.9.8), it's a pain to TAS sometimes. The latter reason is why I dropped 0.9.8, if a lag frame is falsely created, then that requires replaying the movie file over and making a savestate the frame before a lag frame (so that there's a real lag frame when loading a save state instead of one being created). I can't get 0.9.8 to fast foward, so it takes forever to play the movie file from the beginning multiple times.
I can't get 0.9.8 to fast foward, so it takes forever to play the movie file from the beginning multiple times.
uhm, it’s done the same as always. check the hotkey and just press it
that thing about false lag frames, I remember having it too, but don’t remember with what game; really annoying
Yeah, I had false lag frames when loading savestates when I started working on JezzballDS. It's discouraging when you're trying to make a speedrun, and I don't understand why a rerecording emulator would throw false lag frames in like this. I posted the problem in the "DeSmuME emulator development" thread, adelikat asked me one question about it, and then no one did anything to fix it. So I gave up.
EDIT: I just made a thread for this emulation bug.
Gocha was kind enough to fix the false lag frames bug and release fixed revisions of DeSmuME!
VanillaCoke, you can start using this for the rest of your Sonic Rush TAS! You just can't use your old savestates, so you might want to finish the level you're on before switching.
No problem. Good luck with the rest of your run! Be sure to post WIPs as you progress.
Also, having this bug fixed will make TASing Mass Attack 10x easier.
Although I'll have to admit, I didn't work on it every day since my last post, I have been working a few days for a few hours a week. No luck so far, but I figured I'd give an update.
Thing I'll have this thing cracked and finished by tomorrow... Maybe?
I've found out where I've been going wrong, I think. The tricky part is getting the boss to drop a wheelie where you want it to drop. During each attack leading up to the wheel, the positioning of its attack at determines how many reps and on what side it's going to drop (left or right), but Sonic's position during "wake up" from the last attack is also relevant.
There's four "zones" for each attack. Then during "wake up", Sonic's positioning has three zones: Left, Right and Under. If you bring the boss to one of the edges (right edge for example), then that will obviously restrict you from choosing Right. So before the first wheelie ever drops in the fight with the proper RNG, there's 1,728 combinations.
Three things have to work out just perfect (doing just the first wheelie in this example):
1) Manipulate lowest reps
2) Manipulate which side the wheel is dropped
3) Manipulate positioning so there is NO bobbing animation. Boss only initiates a wheelie when it's "head" is at it's lowest point AND is in the correct spot.
Part 3 is the most crucial since it's the difference between something being dropped at hypothetically 28"50 and 30"50. Ideally you want there to be NO downtime between the boss deciding those three things and it executing them. However, it's also the most difficult since it's a result of all the other attacks guesswork.
For example: Manipulated 1 rep during wheelie, it's going to drop on the left side which is closest to the boss, but Sonic had to be to the right of the boss during wake up. Now by the time the boss makes it to the wheelie area, it just barely missed the "low bobbing" requirement and will wait nearly two seconds before it gets low enough to drop the wheel.
So getting everything to go perfect AND have a good entertaining routine is a headache. It's also not always consistent when adding an extra blank frame to the .dsm prior to the fight, so I'm suspecting that there's some kind of other RNG at play, maybe. If so, it's probably the reason why my run didn't sync across from 0.9.8 to 0.9.7.
The reason I said maybe tomorrow is that I've almost got the first wheelie done, which is the hardest one (I've gotta optimize the third hit before the wheelie drops). The other two wheelies only have two attacks inbetween each drop, which has way less possibilities (144). I've got a lot of class work to do before Saturday, so it might just have to wait.
What an overly complicated and dumb boss lol.
Though it is encouraging that you (hopefully) have figured out why it works, rather than just simply brute forcing a low time. At the very least I imagine it will prevent a similar road block at the 'Huge Crisis' boss.
Heres afew tips from an experienced sonic rush player :) when in altitude limit 1, jump off the rail before you hit the speed boost to save time. You can also go over the loop this way. Its possible as sonic, but super easy as blaze. (if you jump at the right time, youll land on the rail behind the booster then imediately jump off the END of the rail allowing you to perform tricks, making it easier to do this, as well as saving time). Also in act 2, the needles on the rails in the beginning actually dont harm you if you boost and (the best part, possibly) they even give you boost energy, so you dont need to jump until you have to jump to another rail :) these are from real time, btw. Also, I was the original founder of the backwards jump dash (im sure youve seen it somewhere, like in my sonic rush boss run or that sonic colors tas), and its good for the entertainment factor during bosses.
I can post more if you want. I really wanna see this.
Also, if you could do them all AND the last story in One run, thatd be great :) but you cant skip the credits in the characters stories the first time ... Oh right! Soft reset, of course! So yeah :)
Hey i remembered another trick. During the sonic vs blaze fight, there is a way to trap the boss in the right corner and keep jumping so that they will take damage when they arent invincible, cancelling out the bosses ai until the final hit (or when you stop jumping). So far as i remember, ive only done this glitch as sonic against blaze (though it may be possible the other way around), and im a actually not so sure how to do it -.- but it is the fastest way to defeat them till the final hit. Sorry, i wish i could tell you how, but thats the only helpful glitch ive found that i dont know HOW to perform. Its probably random as long as they are in the far right corner
Hey, thanks for the tips, I'm sure they'll come in handy.
Still on LSB, I haven't worked on it since posting here because I was busy with mid-terms. I'll see if I can finish it up before this Saturday.
Hey, thanks for the tips, I'm sure they'll come in handy.
Still on LSB, I haven't worked on it since posting here because I was busy with mid-terms. I'll see if I can finish it up before this Saturday.
K, ill see if i can find (or remember) most of the tricks and super shortcuts.
and sorry i dont know HOW to make the dead line boss super easy
Decided to go back to 0.9.8 cause I just can't beat the WR for LSB on 0.9.7 and it won't sync. I know the settings are correct, but I don't think I ever played the .dsm back from the beginning after beating the boss. Maybe I screwed up with savestates somewhere. The starting routine is different and manipulating the RNG doesn't help since the zones of the boss attack/sonic's position will definitely give a different result. I know that I poked a few RAM addresses for testing (hits to go included) and perhaps I mistakenly used one of those savestates back at the time.
EDIT - Actually, I know I didn't play the .dsm back from the beginning. I could never get the fast forward to work in 0.9.8 and I always used a specific set of savestates for skipping to different parts of the run for that reason.
For the sake of the run, I'm going to ignore beating the boss times. I can't reach anyone (sonicandamy and someone else I can't remember off the top of my head) who have really low times on TSC to find out what their strategy is. I'll get the times as low as I possibly can if I can't beat the WRs in the boss fights for sure. Perhaps in the future someone else who runs and can take a look at the code in this game will figure them out. However, I officially give up on trying to best the times for LSB from TSC, continuing the run onward.
Hey heres a link to a tas of night carnival from yours truly. Its not mine, andit doesnt provide the link to a movie file, but perhaps by watching it you could somehow recreate it when you get to that point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flWo9ApyzuI&sns=em
Also im working on my own tas right now, but since we're both doing ds games (meaning i wont need to get another emulator), and you're playing sonic rush, ill be more than happy to help. Just gimme the call if need be. ;)
Hey heres a link to a tas of night carnival from yours truly. Its not mine, andit doesnt provide the link to a movie file, but perhaps by watching it you could somehow recreate it when you get to that point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flWo9ApyzuI&sns=em
I appreciate the thought, but that video is 10 seconds slower than the human WR lol. The guy makes plenty of mistakes and doesn't try to increase his speed at all with airdashing or spindashes... He even gets hit lol. I doubt the guy spent more than a half hour producing that or tried to optimize it at all. It's a good idea to research what real time records are out there for any given game if possible. For Sonic Rush, it'd be http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_rush/bosses. It's also a rule that a TAS has to beat all known records :P.
I also appreciate the offer, but optimizing Rush is complicated and time consuming. A lot of times the optimal route is something that is really outside of the box and the only way to brainstorm them is being very familiar with the engine.
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
You being unable to beat the human 'submitted' times has me a bit suspicious. Perhaps after all this is done, you'd be able to do some Boss ILs to obtain the best time from them, to see what else could happen? Outside of story mode of course.
You being unable to beat the human 'submitted' times has me a bit suspicious. Perhaps after all this is done, you'd be able to do some Boss ILs to obtain the best time from them, to see what else could happen? Outside of story mode of course.
Yeah, that's not a bad idea actually. It could be possible that's there's a larger or different RNG value set outside of story mode.
I've got inspiration again, thanks Cruizer.
Reworked my list into having six initial zones (left, inner left-high ring, inner left-low ring, same for right zones), but there's still only three post hit zones (left, middle, right). Surprisingly enough, the first end result of a 1+1 produced a 1+1+2 and it managed to sub 1:47 semi-optimized. I don't know if I can shave three and a half seconds off the time, but I'll try optimizing it tomorrow (hits, positioning, boss bobbing). If I'm unable to, then I'm going to assume that there is a 1+1+1 that I'll have to keep fishing for (I've given up on getting ahold of the top 2 TSC LSB runners to confirm anything after trying for a few months on various mediums (TSC, twitter, youtube, even facebook like a creep lol)).
