Game objectives

  • Emulator used: VBA-RR v23.5 svn421
  • Not use Navi-code
  • Manipulate luck
  • Takes damage, but can't save time
  • Beat the real final boss, BassGS
old:
If somebody think that only finishing ClassS or ClassZ is better, You can see this. The file classS is not equal to this full tas.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1582771179/1403MBCCclassS.vbm
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/884820766/1403MBCCclassZ.vbm

About this game.

This is a megaman-battle-network game which takes place somewhere between exe3 and exe4. But this isn't an ARPG game. It's a card battle game. There are the six characters available for you to choose. Each character has his/her own story.

What's meaning about no code?

After ClassE, the Host Battle has been unlocked. Now you can input the Navi-code that contain the rare chips into the tournament's section, then battle them and win them. I can get any chips which I want, so this is really a bad idea like use cheat.

Why did I choose Roll?

No.NameHPAPMBelementaccuracyevasionstarsattack description
195Megaman50050330-AB5Charge Shot, atk last chip
196Roll40050300-CA5Heart Flash, atk and recovery50
197Gutsman60070290-CC5Guts Hammer, break atk
198Blues55060320-BB5Sonic Boom, random atk chip
199Turboman55020320-AC5Turbo Wheel, atk all chips (element : F)
200Ring45020x2310-BA5Ring Boomerang, atk last chip (element : E)
Compare these characters, and Roll has the high evasion A, and roll's Heart Flash cost less time than others. Megaman's charge shot and Ring's Ring Boomerang are the last delete atk, protoman's Sonic Boom is random delete atk. These cost more time, and I don't need these effect. The important reason, I can get YoYo3(150atk) from Colourman early after Healing tournament. But I can't beat Roll in Open Hacker's N or other place like other characters. Because roll has the low HP, and can be easy to delete with Gaiasword, so it still hard to say roll is the best.

All the chips I used.

No.NameHPAPMBelementaccuracystarsdescriptionnum
1Cannon606010-C1atkx2
2HiCannon908020-C2atk
3MegaCannon15012040-D3atk
22ForestBomb31804050woodA4atk all chips
25LongSword709020-D2random atk chip
26FireSword1108030fireC4random atk chip
27AquaSword1108030aquaC4random atk chip
28ElecSword1108030elecC4random atk chip
29FireBlade1309040fireD3random atk chipx2
30AquaBlade1309040aquaD3random atk chipx2
31ElecBlade1309040elecD3random atk chip
42Dynawave12013040-B3pierce atk
46GutsPunch1607030-B4break atk
50Cannonball1608030-D2break atk
62Burning1104050fireB4atk all chips
65RabiRing33010040elecC3stun atkx2
76Yo-yo28040x340-C2atk
77Yo-yo312050x350-C4atkx2
86GoldFist9015050-C4break atkx2
92Meteor49040x?40fire?2atk=40x(0 to 4 hits)
93Meteor510040x?50fire?4atk=40x(0 to 5 hits)
132Wind160020--2remove enemy guard, enemy accuracy down, evasion up
175GaiaSword9010070woodC5atk+ all latter chips' atk, random atk chip
I got ZapRing3, Yo-Yo2, Dynawave these three chips from shop in the beginning. ZapRing3 is the best chip, it can stun enemy, and prevent enemy to use the navi chip. Dynawave is the max power chip which I can buy except unstable Meteor4. Yo-Yo2 can be used on hole stage. I can get MegaCannon from this shop, but I need to wait too long time, so I give up it.
I beat Healing tournament second for Colourman's YoYo3. And then, I buy the chips again. Get 25. LongSword 29. FireBlade 30. AquaBlade * 2 31. ElecBlade 50. Cannon Ball 65. RabiRing3 92. Meteor4. These chips will be used for classD except 50. CannonBall. I have to face ThunderMan's Remo-kogoro1 in ClassC, so use CannonBall to break it. At this, I think if I can get HiCannon from Ring or NormalNaviV2, I have got one more choice to use manipulate luck, not only use Longsword. I got first HiCannon until beat Guts tournament's Gutsman.
In ClassD, Get ForestBomb3 from Woodman, GutsPunch from Gutsman, FireSword from Fireman, AquaSword from Iceman. ElecSword from Elecman. Now I'm sure these chips are all necessary. Because sword's accuracy is C, and the blade's accuracy is D. I can use manipulate luck to choose RNG.
In ClassC, succeed get 2nd Yo-Yo3 from Colourman and 2nd Fireblade from NormalNaviv2.
In ClassB, get the very important chip GoldFist from MetalMan.
In ClassA, I got another important chip Meteor5 from MagicMan.
In ClassS, get the 2nd GoldFist from MetalMan,but getting two GoldFist is very necessary.
After ClassS, I can get a Random Chip from #172-#181, but the best chip of them is 175.GaiaSword. For getting it, I waste a few hundred frames when beat with Kingman and Protoman, and you can see I use some low power chips.
No.NameHPAPMBelementaccuracyevasionstarsattack description
203Iceman50060290aquaBA5Freeze Tower, pierce atk (element: A)
204Fireman50060290fireBC5Fire Arm, pierce atk (element: F)
205Elecman45020290elecBB5Spark Stark, atk all chips (element: E)
220Heatman65070280fireBB5Flame Tower, pierce atk (element: F)
225Plantman55020270woodAC5Yellow Flower, atk all chips(element: W)
Use the element Navi can add the power of element chips. About the elemental weakness add, you can see
http://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/918715-mega-man-battle-chip-challenge/faqs/31327
I find that change to different NAVI will cost different frames, usually cost more than 260 frames, and some Navis cost more than 350 frames. Use a normal chip usually costs less than 200 frames. So if I want to use Navi chips, it must be saved the time what 2 chips be cost, e.g. I use once and opponent uses once.
I use Heatman change the Fireman, because Heatman has the high HP, the high evasion, and the high Navi attack. As the same reason, Iceman is better than Freezeman. Elecman is not better than Flashman, but it near the end, and no need to change. I choose Plantman not Woodman to use Gaiasword. Because when changes NAVI, change to Plantman is 12 frames slower than Woodman, but when uses sword, Plantman is 17 frames faster than Woodman. In this game, different Navi using the same chip will cost different time.

About this game's RNG

0x020070F8(2bytes) is random's address. I always dump about 500 frames' random changes in the chose screen before battles. It can help me find how the RNG work.
When shopping, random number stops. When buying one chip, RN array's point+2(*P+2). When buying 10 chips, RN array's point is always add more than 20, because some rare chips can be bought when you buy 10 chips.
Battle begin, *P+8. Because it needs 8 RNs choose the chips. I don't know why it is 8 not 6.
When beating:
1. If both Navi's chips have the same Priority and no element restraint, *p+1 to judge who use chip first.
2. If chip's accuracy is equal to or lower than Navi's evasion, *p+1 to judge hit Navi or not.
3. When use random chips, like sword, kunai or Meteor: Sword(if it has hit Navi), *p+1 to judge hit which chip. Kunai(if it has hit Navi, must hit 3 times), *p+3 to judge these 3 times hit which chips. Meteor4, *p+4 to judge every meteor hit or not, and no need to judge the rule No.2.
4. Use one chip, *p+1, no matter what happened e.g. fails, be stunned, no effect.
5. Delete opponent's Navi, *p+1.
6. Judge get chip or not, *p+2.
About level: The higher level, the more chance get chip; The more chips in deck (not include slot-in chips), the higher level; The less be damaged, the higher level; The less chips be deleted, the higher level; Use slot-in chips would reduce level, but if this slot-in chip is recovery chip, maybe rise level.
7. Get chip, *p+1 to judge get which chip. (I still didn't test that if opponent haven't any chip.)
8. slot-in chip. 3 cases: slot-success, slot-fail, slot-last. Slot-in, *p+1 to judge success or fail no matter what the slot-value is 100. So I always use it to make manipulate luck.
What's meaning slot-last? In fact, slot-last is a glitch. When your last attack may delete opponent, you can't slot in chip unless your attack misses. But at the first frames which you use your last chip, you still can pass R or L to slot in. However the random number didn't change, because the system hasn't judge this slot-in success or fail. But system has judge that you have use a slot-in chip, so can reduce the level after battle. Generally speaking, slot-last's only effect is reduce the level and fail to get chip, and then change the random. But it has the very low chance to change the random, because in most case, level S has the same effect as level 10 or level 9, only get the more money. In fact, when I found this glitch, I have completed ClassZ, so I only use this glitch twice.

About Open Battle

After complete ClassZ, Open Battle's HackersN has been unlocked. Now I can beat this game's real final boss, BassGS. But before beat him, I need to complete 99 battles first. Open Battle is not similar to Battle chip GP, because the opponent is random, except Opponent 5,10,...,95,100. So it is important to use manipulate luck to choose the easy opponent. I found this address 0x02008831(1byte) is a flag to display Navi. Which opponent Navi is better or worse?
The beat Navis: Elecman Flashman Sharkman Thunderman Numberman Magnetman NaviTypeE
I can use Roll with Gaiasword hit them only once. But Sharkman's evasion A is very high when on the ice stage.
The better Navis: Gutsman Colourman Ring Plantman Kingman Toadman Quickman Magicman Protoman Megaman Beastman NormalNaviV3 NormalNaviV2 Shadowman
Most of them, I can use Plantman with Gaiasword hit them only once. I can use Roll beat Toadman and Magicman, but Toadman must not use BblWrap, and Roll must avoid Magicman's first attack(firebalde). Toadman has the highest evasion S with the ice stage, so it's very hard to hit him.
The normal Navis: Turboman Fireman Woodman Freezeman NormalNaviV1 NaviTypeF NaviTypeA NaviTypeW Flameman
These Navi's first chips' Priority is higher than Gaiasword, and theirs accuracy is too high to avoid.
The worse Navis: Heatman Skullman Knightman NormalNaviV4 NormalNaviX Metalman
Them have the very high HP, Plantman can't beat them with one hit.
The worst Navis: Iceman Airman
It's very hard to avoid Iceman's sword or blade, and one of my chips must be deleted. Airman appears with Hole Stage.
This is a list of all the Navis who I meet. Two Colourman? Yes, because this is the Roll's story.
FlagNaviFrequencyNumFlagNaviFrequencyNumFlagNaviFrequencyNum
0Gutsman391 1Colourman2 82 883 2Turboman(10) 52 842
3Ring1 (40)14Fireman1815Woodman29 372
6Iceman 07Elecman54 61 76 9748Heatman 0
9Plantman41 68210Sharkman27 44 96 98411Flashman72 872
12Kingman17 (75)113Toadman34 58 62 (85) 93414Snakeman12 942
15Thunderman 016Numberman3 24 51 66 99517Quickman381
18Skullman9 78219Airman 020Freezeman(55) 64 672
21Magicman63 (65) 83222Protoman11 21 42 (95)323Megaman23 (30)1
24Knightman13 57225Beastman4 (15) 46 71326Magnetman(25) 49 532
27NormalNaviV4 028NormalNaviV36 26 28 31 32 56 69 73 79929NormalNaviV216 36 913
30NormalNaviV181 89231NaviTypeF7 33 (60)232NaviTypeA(90)0
33NaviTypeW19 47 (70) 74 86434NaviTypeE8 77 (80)235NormalNaviX431
36Colourman 037Flameman14 22 48 (50) 59438Metalman(20) 921
39Shadowman(45)0 NormalNaviV5(5) Gateman(35)
BassGS(100)
Or you can download this expatiation 2000 RNs dump.
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?aq3pp16q8xjtb4s

Improve idea.

Before beat with BassGS, I pass Start and choose chat to change RNG when edit chips in the Program Deck. It only cost 233 frames, but it break the original RNG rule. The random result bases on Deck's chips (not include slot-in chips), chips' location, Navi chip.
If I widely use it, I could manipulate luck to choose all easy enemies in Open Battle, and save lots of frames. But I don't know how to control this.

Nach: While this may be a very optimal run through a game, I'm not finding a game which is solely about going through menus as fast as possible to be very entertaining. Furthermore, technically, a good TAS depends on more than just optimal speed, or abusing random number generators. Good TASs consist of so much more. This might be a good TAS of the game, for what little it has to offer, but I'm finding it lacking in offering anything to TASing in general, and the game itself is quite boring. Rejecting.

Nach: Accepting for vault.
FractalFusion: Setting to delayed because of the above improvement that should be checked.
FractalFusion: Replaced movie file with above movie file which is about 2 minutes faster. Setting back to accepted (for vault).
natt: procesing


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AKheon wrote:
There's a general timesaver the author didn't notice. Each time you see the animation of the screen flipping around (as in transitions between scenes, etc.), holding down A makes the graphic go by 17-18 frames quicker. Might seem like a small thing, but you see it during this game A LOT. Already up to the first fight you've seen it 15 times, which means that by holding down A there's 255 - 270 frames saved... just like that.
Thank you very much, and I had found how many frames be saved when holding A: be in pet, 17 frames be saved; out pet, 18; in shop, 19; out shop, 18; be in battle chip GP, 19; choose class(E, D...X,Z) first times, 0 or -1(-1 is the lag); choose class second, 11 or 12 or 13(because of the lag); before edit chips, 17. Now, I have fixed during ClassS, and saved 2646 frames. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/783626564/1403MBCCclassS.vbm Edit: fix a mistake, now saved 2664 frames. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/501669231/1403MBCCclassS.vbm
grassini wrote:
This game is all about manipulation though.In a normal run you have to plan what equipment you'll have for any situation that the game presents,here it just has the fastest equipment possible for all of them.The most interesting thing to me about this game is how initial character choice is irrelevant since you have access to all the characters next to the endgame.I do enjoy watching games like these being optimally solved once and for all though.
I use CodeBreaker cheat to change the name, but after my retest, I found that change name can't effect RNG, only change the NAVI-code. I used to make NAVI-code by myself for the 128 tournament. The CodeBreaker you can see http://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/918715-mega-man-battle-chip-challenge/faqs/33138
FractalFusion wrote:
Sorry to hear that. It's very hard to take when a movie you spent so much effort on is rejected. One of my movies (#1896: FractalFusion's GBA Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow in 53:17.46) was rejected even though I spent 46231 rerecords on it. I don't remember exactly how many hours I spent, but assuming around 750 rerecords per hour, that is over 60 hours. I accept the rejection though, because part of the problem was that I didn't do enough to get others interested (lack of encode, for one), and I would rather leave it in the past and do newer things. BTW, I never deemed that only 45 minutes of this run was essential, although I might have said something before that allowed others to assume that I did so.
But this play get the different result. http://tasvideos.org/3620S.html I angered that this should be avoided in the beginning, but he disappeared at that moment. Another thing I have to say, my this tas's rerecords count is far more than it displayed. In most cases, I must use tas-edit again and again to adjust chips position for next 2 or more battles. If you watch it frame by frame, you would realize.
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>> saved 2646 frames Cool how you managed to fix it so quickly. I noticed you missed a screen transition at frames 2401, 30935, 132667, 152230, 202629 and 247985. This should save some more frames. You can also speed up the credits roll by holding start down (relevant once you continue updating this run).
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AKheon wrote:
I noticed you missed a screen transition at frames 2401, 30935, 132667, 152230, 202629 and 247985. This should save some more frames. You can also speed up the credits roll by holding start down (relevant once you continue updating this run).
I have explained when you take part in Class at first time, Holding A can't save any frames. Sometimes because of the lag, you may lose 1 frames. Thanks for your help, pass start at first frames and no need to holding. I will fix it. But this ClassS file is not equal to my full tas, I didn't manipulate luck for Gaiasword. edit: thanks AKheon again, you watched very carefully. There is a mistake in 152230.
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Just noticed that this run was rejected. I'm surprised considering I was the only "no" voter, but I do think it was the right decision considering TASVideos's mission. That said, I'm in the opinion that TASVideos would benefit in having a collection of best times/scores in addition to the high-quality publications so that runs like this one can find its proper audience in the TAS community.
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I think in some cases we can ingnore the lack of real-time action in a run that produces some true technical achievement. For example, the run entirely made by a bot was extremely boring, but the concept was cool after all. The same authour also made another submission wich caught some interest. I don't mind rejecting these 2 runs, but probably we can start publishing such things as pure tech achievements? This won't lower the site's standard in any way, because the explanation of why is such submission worthy would be inside the submission text. PS: after Garfield, I don't think we can get lower in standards of "MUCH ACTION".
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
PS: after Garfield, I don't think we can get lower in standards of "MUCH ACTION".
I am all about setting new standards
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I have fixed the ClassZ, and 5529 frames saved. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1259373646/1403MBCCclassZ.vbm
Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 61
Nach wrote:
A few things in particular from the thread jumped out at me.
SmashManiac wrote:
This game is just not well suited for TAS in my opinion. The reason is because the entire gameplay of Mega Man: Battle Chip Challenge is building your deck to take advantage of luck and then watching luck unfold. Luck manipulation is then almost equivalent to cheating in this game, since battles become extremely predictable. As for the speed element, the game is just too slow in general. Voting no for bad game choice.
IMO, this is a bad game choice as it is just like a card game with the MMBN theme. I have to disagree, though, with the luck manipulation comment above. As it's cited as a reason for rejection by a voter and a judge, I wouldn't want to spread the idea that manipulation is bad. Every TAS with a random element in it is manipulated to make the outcome more predictable. Without it, it just becomes a run with save states. I wouldn't want to see that kind of reason given for a rejection.
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KwyjiboPrime wrote:
I have to disagree, though, with the luck manipulation comment above. As it's cited as a reason for rejection by a voter and a judge, I wouldn't want to spread the idea that manipulation is bad. Every TAS with a random element in it is manipulated to make the outcome more predictable. Without it, it just becomes a run with save states. I wouldn't want to see that kind of reason given for a rejection.
Note, I underlined it, not bolded it. The idea was users found it slow and repetitive. I pointed out another way a user expressed it, but didn't agree with their wording.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
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Nice work mtvf1. Next time there's the annual or semi-annual "bringing back submissions from Gruefood" event, I think this run deserves another chance.
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AKheon wrote:
Nice work mtvf1. Next time there's the annual or semi-annual "bringing back submissions from Gruefood" event, I think this run deserves another chance.
Really? Never heard this. Did it happen in the past?
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Yeah. Ok, it looks like last time was in 2009. http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8052
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In case anyone wants to see the Youtube upload: Link to video
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Ahh, so many old submissions laying around in the workbench... so many memories... My opinion on this run is clear from the previous posts I've made. It's a well-made run that actually kept me interested nearly through the entire length because I was in marvel of the impossible sights that were occuring. Yes vote for the "vault" (it feels a little discriminatory name, though, complete with the opressive, dull gray logo).
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AKheon wrote:
Yes vote for the "vault" (it feels a little discriminatory name, though, complete with the opressive, dull gray logo).
This run has been vaulted! Enjoy some more vaults. ;)
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Some Editors can replace the movie file?
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vba-rr v23.5 svn421
  File: Mega-Man - Battle Chip Challenge.GBA
CRC-32: 26be44fd
   MD4: 0f423ea6282a8a920d85596047c2aba6
   MD5: d996f6cbb36eb15063b290d8f00ad654
 SHA-1: 72309736f3820470c6f372d6a05ad1f16bc5a946
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [2170] GBA Mega Man Battle Chip Challenge "best ending" by mtvf1 in 2:42:33.10
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Ok, so as much as I like to see a random 10 year old going around DOSing other people's accounts, I'd gotta say, this run was far too boring for my liking. To motivate myself into watching the entire thing, I went and made a tally every time a battle begins. By the first credits, there were already 97 battles, with pretty much the same enemies again and again. Given how it took more than 90 minutes to get to the credits, I assumed there wouldn't be as much battle for the post game section. Unfortunately, it seems there are twice as much battles for the final half, totaling 150 battles from the first credits to the end of the encode. What made it simultaneously better and worse is that it uses the same moves over and over. It's better since this makes the battle a lot faster. Unfortunately, it's 149 battles too much. >.>