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Yes, something like that, but it's not timing/randomness related, except for the vertical 1 pixel variation in walking animation.
Right, I just meant for an even distrubtion of ceiling heights, I think you understood.
Yes, I'm trying it in some places. (Only when I need to, actually...)
Why only when you need to? Wouldn't it save however much time the first jump takes minus the time it takes to zip the distance covered in the first jump? (For cases where you could start zipping at the posistion of the first jump) An example is the set of 2 MBs (magnet beam) used in iceman's level to make the screen scroll down for the first time.
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ventuz wrote:
I just had idea, in Fireman level, when you arrive near Fireman room, you had to climb down ladder zigzaging. Would shooting magnet beam on wall zip you pass those wall? (see pic below) *edit, the "Special case: Walls at the top of the screen" trick, no good?*
What happens if your under the temporary invincibility from being hit when you try to use the lava to zip?
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I believe that you aren't invincible from lava in Mega Man 1, but are in Mega Man 2 when hit first. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
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There is no invincibility from spikes or other environmental hazards in Megaman 1.
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Yeah, I was surprised when I was playing MeggerMan 2 the first time and I got knocked into the lava. "Huh, I guess that stuff doesn't kill me... OH WAIT"
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Bisqwit its been a while since you last updated us with your run. Are you still on it or play it when you are in the mood?
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ANGERFIST wrote:
Bisqwit its been a while since you last updated us with your run. Are you still on it or play it when you are in the mood?
I play it when I have the mood. Currently I'm improving the Fireman level. I managed to squeeze 10 frames from the "had to wait" place, but somehow the gain had shrinked to 8 frames before the door of Fireman. And I can't copypaste either, because it desyncs.
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At the end of the bombman level there's a room with an extra life and a small tunel underneath, could you zip through this small tunel, if so that seems like the best option to me.
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
At the end of the bombman level there's a room with an extra life and a small tunel underneath, could you zip through this small tunel, if so that seems like the best option to me.
How do you suggest doing it? Observe clearly how the zipping is performed and what is required for it.
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Is it too low? Otherwise I don't see how it's different.
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
Is it too low? Otherwise I don't see how it's different.
You need to get in between of a magnet beam and the ceiling. There's no way you can put a magnet beam so low in that tunnel that Megaman could jump on it. But do not despair, in this particular case, the screen _top_ works very well! Here's the new plan for the end of the level: Yellow=beams, magenta=route. The beam that goes through a wall in the upper edge is indeed possible - the game only checks that the end of the beam doesn't collide with a wall. If you face to the left and grow the beam (conveniently done during the zipping), you can then turn to the right and the beam will be through the wall. Now, the biggest problem is still the number of beams, and I need to refine that a bit. (These ideas, including the vertical wrapping at the shutter, came from Finalfighter.)
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That's a totally sweet idea, but that last bit doesn't seem like it's worth it, falling is awfully fast as is. Have you considered not doing route P, the very first zip, since it's 4 beams for only 1/3-1/2 full length zip, I was thinking maybe stay with your weapon at that part and shoot the red junky things to reduce lag and then do the large zip off the pillar. Also is it possible to get a refill off of the black rocket things that travel in sin waves?
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> That's a totally sweet idea, but that last bit doesn't seem like it's worth it, falling is awfully fast as is. It's worth a few seconds, and it saves the walking&jumping to the first pit. > Have you considered not doing route P, the very first zip I am not 100% certain because it's been a few weeks, but I think that's exactly what I am doing now. > is it possible to get a refill off of the black rocket things that travel in sin waves? Yes, but they explode in a very laggy way. The cannons are much better in that aspect.
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I don't supose you can jump out of the right side of a wall and land on a MB, maybe a short one?
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
I don't supose you can jump out of the right side of a wall and land on a MB, maybe a short one?
Yes, it's possible to do that. That's what I did in the published movie here: But, it's not possible to place a magnet beam below Mega Man's hand level. It worked here because Mega Man's hands were much below the score numbers. The right position for the beam (for zipping) is exactly two pixels above the score numbers. If you face right at the edge of the wall, you can grow a full-length beam and jump when it's convenient to jump. But the vertical position is the question.
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I was thinking of doing something similar at end of the bombman's level after passing through that second wall, could you use the jump in a wall and be temporarily lower technique to pull this off?
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That's awesome. :) Have you checked if MB trough walls is helpful in any of the earlier levels? I checked the bombman png again. (It doesn't include the new route yet though.) I'm pretty sure you didn't do route P because of low gain/ammo, but I don't remember further. Another thing I thought of while looking at that thing again is that just before the boss door, maybe a cross between route G and H is possible, if you're just one MB short. Can you save one by placing the first beam while jumping from the small ledge? You'll lose forward movement for a while but if the difference between G and H is several seconds that doesn't matter.
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Truncated wrote: > That's awesome. :) Have you checked if MB trough walls is helpful in any of the earlier levels? So far, I can't find any other place where it would be helpful, in the whole game. > I checked the bombman png again. (It doesn't include the new route yet though.) Yes, I haven't updated it for a while. I should redraw it. :) I didn't even use layers when I made it. > Another thing I thought of while looking at that thing again is that just before the boss door, maybe a cross between route G and H is possible, if you're just one MB short. Can you save one by placing the first beam while jumping from the small ledge? You'll lose forward movement for a while but if the difference between G and H is several seconds that doesn't matter. This would have to be verified. To complicate the matters, there's a guardian robot at the door. Spider-Waffle wrote: > I was thinking of doing something similar at end of the bombman's level after passing through that second wall, could you use the jump in a wall and be temporarily lower technique to pull this off? The problem is that the beam needs to be positioned perfectly. I really don't remember whether it's possible to perform anything useful there, Mega Man's position being so high. But it is definitely worth a try! If it works, it reduces the need of 4 beams to 2 or even 1. And gives a longer zipping width.
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The penalty of the new path has now shrunk from 36 to to 27 frames, thanks to a 9 frame optimization I have worked on the last few days in the Fireman level. The optimization is nearly invisible and occurs in the place of forced ceiling delay. I have updated the WIP. https://files.tasvideos.org/bisqwit/bisqwit-rockmanv6-incomplete.zip It contains some playing of the Bombman level too, but it's still likely to be changed in many ways... Rerecord count so far: 38156 (greatly inaccurate, since there's copypasting and a lot of swapping of file versions involved).
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Watching this new wip.. makes me remember the days when Morimoto's movie was godly to me... Keep up the great work Bisqwit!
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I had some ideas for elecman: Here I was thinking jump off that ledge under the MB before you place the first MB, maybe you can change the nature of the pause so you only go the required height to get on the ledge. Then I was wondering if you considered not doing the 3 MB in a row part to zip a short distance, and instead using these MBs elsewhere. I was thinking you could use 1 or 2 on the first screen of the last ladder, maybe an aditional one on either/both of the last 2 screens. Then there's coming up the 2nd to last and 4th to last ladders. [EDIT by Bisqwit: URL refused to work. Changed to something that works. (Using some other route to download the file.)]
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
Here I was thinking jump off that ledge under the MB before you place the first MB, maybe you can change the nature of the pause so you only go the required height to get on the ledge.
I paused in order to gain movement quick after getting hit. During the pause, either a jump is continued (it can't be controlled) or Mega Man stands still. I chose to progress (jump). I fail to see how I could make it yet faster.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Then I was wondering if you considered not doing the 3 MB in a row part to zip a short distance, and instead using these MBs elsewhere.
The zipping - I don't remember if it was 3, 4 or 5 blocks long - saves about 11 frames per block. The last ladder is already almost continuous progressing upward. It's hard to make it so much faster. Not to say it's impossible, but I don't feel like trying. :)
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Are you thinking of the first screen of the last ladder? The last two screens look they are about 1 MB short from constant jumping and no climbing. Trying to use 1 or 2 MBs on the first screen of the last lader and then 1 MB on either/both the 2nd to last and 4th to last laders wouldn't be hard. About how many frames does a jump save opposed to climbing that distance?
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
About how many frames does a jump save opposed to climbing that distance?
Climbing progresses upward in sequences of 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0 pixels per frame. Jumping progresses upward... someone should calculate this.
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Had an idea for a new zipping technique, I don't think I've seen it before: First you construct the longest MB you can and heigh enough that you will be jump off of it and place another MB to zip on. Then you place the next MB asap and make it's length slightly smaller than the longest possible such that after your done zipping on you'll land on the first one, the long one, again. From here you make the another MB of maximum length and place it as low as you can (hand height) and repeat. Placing it low allows for more MB chained like this, I don't know how many you could do. But you'd want to start as close the ceiling as you can such that you'll be able to fit how ever many you want in to minimize jumping time.
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