Post subject: Gauntlet 1
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
This game goes really quickly.. I was very surprised that world 1 takes under 3 minutes to beat.. world 2 is around 5 minutes, I think. A quick estimate at this point says, "under 30 minutes for the full game". here's a rough FMV of the first world. This fmv is for the "Licensed" version of Gauntlet; I don't know if it will play in the unlicensed version. The difference between the two is that the licensed version says "Licensed by Nintendo of America" on the title screen. Anyway, the FMV of World 1, Zipped: http://fuwafuwa.animeonld.com/gauntlet1.zip 2:42 with only 36 saves. like i said, "rough". still, there's only one significant speed improvement I'm aware of (which I'll point out below). 2:30 is possible, but I'm not sure how much faster it could be than that. It would almost certainly require a lot of luck on the part of random monster generation/movement. NOTE: It seems this FMV (or maybe this game?) desynchs VERY easily for me. If I put Famtasia into the background, or try running it at anything less than 100% framerate, the movie desynchs. However, I have also watched the movie from start to finish without any deviations... I have also tested the FMV on another system and it DOES work there, too, which is why I'm posting it here. YMMV. some notes about this run... In general: I pick up too many chests. Oh well. I also sometimes don't click out of the menu following treasure rooms quickly enough. Oh well. I also get stuck in hand-to-hand combat against level 3 enemies/generators. what i need to do is shoot them once beforehand, and THEN hand-to-hand them. that should destroy them. Level 9: You don't need to pick up any of the food here.. But I was still experimenting when I did this movie. In a worst-case scenario, i think you'll reach the treasure room (#13) with about 15 health left. :) Level 14: I should pick up the key towards the start of this level, so that I can walk through the door, hit the panels and THEN shoot through the wall and go to the exit. Level 15: I burn a potion here because it hits the green slimes in two compartments. I also shoot a wall for apparently no reason near the first exist.. but that's because the green slime in the upper left corner kept moving towards me when I tried to get in that area. The shot rolled the random number generator enough that it moved away instead. I spent about half my saves here, trying to figure that out. :( It's a little out of the way, but I would prefer NOT skipping the key+armor potion here, because there are only 3 armor potions in the game... this one, one in 26 (a clue level, but the potion is out of the way) and one in 85 (the entire level is out of the optimal path), plus it comes with a key, which will be used later (not in the duration of this movie, however). The movie stops just as it begins level 20. Comments?
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
sorry, i haven't watched it, i don't know how to use famtasia :P but you DID get the "?" hint for the final code didn't u? :D
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
NESRocks wrote:
sorry, i haven't watched it, i don't know how to use famtasia :P but you DID get the "?" hint for the final code didn't u? :D
to use famtasia: 1) doubleclick famtasia.exe 2) go to "File" 3) go to "Open" 4) select the ROM you want to load (in this case, the licensed version of Gauntlet. Good luck finding it.) 5) Go to "Edit" 6) Go to "Movie" 7) Go to "Play" 8) Press "..." under "Record Filename" and select the appropriate movie (in this case gauntlet1.fmv) 9) Click OK And yes, I do visit the clue room. In a perfect run, however, you wouldn't need to visit any of them. As I recall, the password is the same whether you visit the clue room or not... so if you start a movie (and, say, save it and copy it at level 1) and then with the first copy, walk through the game and visit all the ? rooms as normal, writing down the code... and then for the second copy, just ignore the ? rooms and go for pure speed. the password SHOULD be the same.
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
fuwafuwa wrote:
And yes, I do visit the clue room. In a perfect run, however, you wouldn't need to visit any of them. As I recall, the password is the same whether you visit the clue room or not... so if you start a movie (and, say, save it and copy it at level 1) and then with the first copy, walk through the game and visit all the ? rooms as normal, writing down the code... and then for the second copy, just ignore the ? rooms and go for pure speed. the password SHOULD be the same.
i would consider that cheating as it's impossible to guess the code without visiting the hint rooms on the real game (unless by a heavenly strike of luck you input the right code at the end of the game hehehe)
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
NESRocks wrote:
i would consider that cheating as it's impossible to guess the code without visiting the hint rooms on the real game (unless by a heavenly strike of luck you input the right code at the end of the game hehehe)
To put it another way -- you get to a point (like, say, level 14) where you make a save-state. you then proceed (without save-stating) through the clue room, obtaining the clue. you write it down and reload your save state (which will bring you back to level 14) then you go to level 17 and skip the clue room.. but you now "know" what the clue is. it's just savestate abuse, no different than any other kind found here.
cat
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Sweden
I would find a run that walks through the clue rooms much more interresting to see than just an as fast as possible run.
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
i had understood how to get the clue without going to the clue room, and i find it is a cheat....
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
status update... i've pathed out the first 68 levels, and determined how many keys and bombs I need for each. there are about 25 more rooms I have to go through before i reach the 'end'. i've decided to burn a key at clue level 26, in order to get 10 bombs -- they're very useful in world 3 and 5. biggest problem discovered thus far: there are FAR too few keys in this path. depending on how many keys world 5 needs, i may have to pick up an out-of-the-way key, like one found in level 1, 11, or 14... :/ however, IIRC there IS a workaround: super shots shoot through doors... which means (ideally) i can bypass up to 10 doors per batch of super shots. the first set of super shots that are "on the path", so to speak, are in level 50. the next set are in clue level 66. with a bit of care, those might last until world 5... i expect to finish this game next week, and begin recording the v1 run in full. currently, i think this'll be about 30 minutes... but i haven't timed the game beyond the first 3 worlds yet, so maybe i'm wrong.
Post subject: Re: Gauntlet 1
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
Grr. This is really starting to get irritating. Okay, so I've made about 30 FMVs covering the first 20 levels.. only one has successfully recorded that far without errors. Most of them desynch when they mess up a keystroke somewhere.. That's okay, because I'm now making FMVs that finish at the start of each level. ... but now, I'm starting to get other weird desynchs, particularly in treasure rooms. For those who haven't played the game: Treasure rooms have a randomly positioned exit. Lately, I've been having FMVs that will play through all the levels without error, including the treasure room... but when I walk to where the exit is supposed to be in the treasure room, the exit won't be there. (IOW: the exit was generated in a different location than when I played through it). The oddity is that the FMV will play through the treasure room normally, so if there's a desynch it must've occurred while the treasure room was being generated.. At this rate, I'll have well over 500 attempted FMVs before I have a single FMV that runs through half of the game.. it just desynchs way too easily. PS: World 1 speed is down to 2:38 with an extra key. hopefully 1 will be enough for now. :/ PS^2: Yes, I am using backup FMVs. Sometimes i have to go back to a previous FMV because anything i make with a later FMV will always desynch. :( I've had to do it several times already.
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
Guess they don't call it "Gauntlet" for nothing, huh? Seems like it's making you run through one of your own. >>;
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
Update... I'm now working on world 4. Here's a slightly earlier FMV that shows up through the end of world 3: http://fuwafuwa.animeonld.com/gauntlet1-w3.zip Here's my current run times for the first three worlds, approximately: World 1: 2:40 (which can probably be lowered by ~10 seconds with a few optimizations that I missed the first time around.) World 2: 3:45 (I'm not sure how much can be improved on here. It was a rather clean run, all things considered. There were several lucky treasure room exit placements which helped speed things up considerably.) World 3: 3:25 (There are a number of mistakes, but none of them are very costly.. still, one could improve a few seconds.) In almost all of the levels, I make minor mistakes in positioning, which cost a frame or two here or there... but with a total of 70 levels that have to be crossed, and usually most require moving more than one direction, it would add up to probably several more seconds of time that could be shaved off, provided you're willing to endure the game's desynchronizations... I probably won't have time to make a 2nd version, because I'm going to Japan for a study abroad session for most of the rest of the summer.. I leave on the 9th.
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
Well, I made it up to level 69 in world 4.. that puts me about 3/4ths through the game. Unfortunately, levels 66, 68 and 69 are causing me massive headaches. I've spent the past 3 days playing them over and over and over again. I can beat all of them at 100% speed without needing savestates, because I can do them perfectly now. :p ... and yet when I try making a FMV of those levels, they give me nothing but trouble. I managed to make it past 66 and 68 with brute force (moving 1-2 seconds, saving, testing the FMV, if it works back up the FMV and continue, etc).. but 69 has a teleporter in it, and i can't seem to control where i come out, regardless of how many times I do it.. and as such i've never had an FMV that made it to the opposite side of the teleporter, much less completed the level. i've tried going back to earlier levels and playing up through them, but it doesn't seem to help. So, after what must've been something like 6 hours of trying different techniques to get a working FMV, I'm giving up. This FMV just doesn't want to pass level 69. Furthermore, I'm leaving to study abroad in Japan in a few days, and the last thing I need to do now is play a Gauntlet level another 50 times just to produce a working FMV. As such, I'm putting this on hold. If anyone wants to beat Gauntlet, be my guest. Maybe you'll have fewer desynch headaches than I. My last working FMV is available here: http://fuwafuwa.animeonld.com/gauntlet1-068.zip It completes the game up through level 68. Some notes about the run thus far: You can influence the location of the exits for treasure rooms by waiting on the overworld map. It seems that every few frames (maybe 1/8th of a second, or faster?) of waiting shifts the position of the exit. If you're careful, you can use that to move the treasure room exits close to you so you can finish the levels quickly. I assume this can also be used in regular rooms with multiple exits, too. Level 5, 27, 42: The run is messier than I'd like for these levels. They could easily be run more cleanly. Level 9: I shouldn't've picked up the food.. cost a fraction of a second, and it looks bad besides. Level 13, 19: I pick up the keys in these Treasure Rooms because they're fast. I'm PRETTY SURE you need at least one of them to get the seventh clue in World 5... however, there appear to be some super shots I forgot to tally in World 4, which could make them unessential (speeding up the game by a second or two). Level 15: The armor potion is slightly out of the way, and can be picked up later (Level 26, the clue room) without a significant detour. It's essential for world 5, though, so it must be picked up in one of those two levels. This was a sloppy run (2 stray arrows fired), but the route (and use of potions) is about as optimal as you can hope for. Level 16: I think it's faster if you pick up the two bottom chests, and then go left and down instead of the way I do it in this FMV. You want the bomb strength potion in the lower right chest, because with it you can kill level 3 generators with bombs (essential, in world 5) Level 20: I pick up the shot potion here because the only other shot potion is in level 12.. and that's not in the fastest route. This is useful against the final boss, so that you can kill it in about 1/2 the time.. for the few seconds it takes, it's a worthwhile grab. Level 26: Pick up the bombs here. You need most of them in World 5, but a few extras wouldn't hurt. You might be able to make-do without them, but it'd require slowing down in other levels, I think. Level 37: I think it would be faster to hit the glowing tile behind the demon generators, rather than walking past it and hitting the tile below the wizard generator (as I do in this FMV). The speed potion here is, of course, essential to a speed run. Level 38: I hit a stun square here (it can't be avoided). You might want to try the pause trick to de-stun yourself; press START to go to the status screen, and press START again to go back to the main level and continue playing. I don't know if just taking the stun is faster or not. Level 40: You can bomb death if you want, but I prefer running over him. :) Due to its position, the super arrows are fairly worthless here. You could use them in 42, but aside from there, I don't see a better place to use them before you get more in Level 50. Level 58: It would be faster to do this level by shooting down and right, hit the two glowing squares on the right and run out. It'd save a super shot and several seconds. I think you need to enter level 79 with a minimum of 4 keys *or* 2 keys and 2 super shots. You need to have a total of 4 keys when you enter level 80 (79-82-80 is probably the fastest route) and you get 2 keys on that route. I *think* you only need 1 key when entering level 83.. and if you follow 79-82-80-82-79-83, you'll get 2 additional keys (82 and 79 again) and use 1 (79), leaving you with that minimum 1 key. I could be wrong, but I don't remember any doors that didn't have keys nearby after level 83. Good luck. If no one does Gauntlet by July, I'll start a new run at that point, hopefully with fewer desyncs.
Post subject: Interesting
Joined: 4/9/2004
Posts: 18
Although this is kind of hidden at the bottom of the page, let me say it's impressive and I hope that you or someone else continues it. Back in the day I was OK at Gauntlet, until I got to those invisible stages...
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
I've started this run up again, and have switched to the unlicensed Gauntlet rom for certain legal purposes (I own the unlicensed game, but not the licensed one). I've also switched from Famtasia to FCEU. On the up-side, FCEU's much more stable than Famtasia -- I've had no desynchs through world 1, whereas for Famtasia I would usually get 3-4 and would waste a few hours going through the same areas over and over again. On the down side, either because of FCEU or because of the switch in ROMs, menu reaction speeds seem to be slower. Maybe it's because of the fact that FCEU only seems to do 25% and 50%, and not 30% (the speed I found best while running Famtasia) As such, my test-run of World 1 is now at 2:46 on FCEU, whereas it was 2:42 on Famtasia.. even with a slight route improvement. :( Thoughts? Comments?
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
If you're losing speed on menus, frame-by-frame it or edit the movie file with a hex editor.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
gauntlet is a great game...which character were you using anyways...most probably the elf...
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Wait, what, so how many speed settings do you get in FCEU? Famtasia gives you 999.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
KMFDManic wrote:
gauntlet is a great game...which character were you using anyways...most probably the elf...
naturally.. Elf has a speed of 5, and moves faster than his shots when moving horizontally or vertically. He moves as fast as his shots when moving diagonally. With the speed potion from level 37, he can move faster than his shots, even when moving diagonally.
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
Gauntlet Dark Legacy is my fave game of all time for some reason or another...I remember the first time I ever played Gauntlet for NES, when it wasn't even licensed ...lol..I played the game almost nonstop till I got to the final boss...only tough stages were the invisible ones...
Former player
Joined: 5/9/2004
Posts: 114
I'd prefer to see this game in its entirety with a slightly worse time than to have the risk of desync in famtasia. A few seconds here and there doesn't matter too much outside of competitions. That said, don't do something if you know you can do it better!
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
ok i made a list of all vault codes for this game as there isnt a list available on the internet. entering the optimal code can save MANY seconds on the vault code screen, and there are only 31 possible vault codes. you read it right, there are no letters "J", "Q" or "V" or number zero (0) password beggining letter - vault code - distance (each time a letter "A" appears, the math is 2+ what it was programmed to be, but in reality, 2 extra moves need to be done to reach letter A instead of 0 moves) Axx-xxx-xxx - PYMKFERH - 87 <- longest one so far, coincidence? i dont think so anymore! it's also the only odd one Bxx-xxx-xxx - RXLIEFPG - 74 Cxx-xxx-xxx - N1KMHGOF - 72 Dxx-xxx-xxx - OZILGHNE - 70 Exx-xxx-xxx - LTROBAMD - 70 Fxx-xxx-xxx - MSPNABLC - 68 Gxx-xxx-xxx - IWORDCKB - 64 Hxx-xxx-xxx - KUNPCDIA - 64 Ixx-xxx-xxx - G7DBONHR - 60 Kxx-xxx-xxx - H6CANOGP - 60 Lxx-xxx-xxx - E9BDRPFO - 56 Mxx-xxx-xxx - F8ACPREN - 56 Nxx-xxx-xxx - C3HFKIDM - 52 Oxx-xxx-xxx - D2GEIKCL - 50 Pxx-xxx-xxx - A5FHMLBK - 50 Rxx-xxx-xxx - B4EGLMAI - 48 <- i.e this one would have been 16 x 16 frames faster Sxx-xxx-xxx - 8F53YX91 - 52 Txx-xxx-xxx - 9E42XY8Z - 54 Uxx-xxx-xxx - 6H351Z7Y - 56 Wxx-xxx-xxx - 7G24Z16X - 58 Xxx-xxx-xxx - 4B97TS5W - 60 Yxx-xxx-xxx - 5A86ST4U - 64 Zxx-xxx-xxx - 2D79WU3T - 64 <- this is the one i used on my run 1xx-xxx-xxx - 3C68UW2S - 66 2xx-xxx-xxx - ZOWT7619 - 68 3xx-xxx-xxx - 1NUS67Z8 - 70 4xx-xxx-xxx - XRTW98Y7 - 72 5xx-xxx-xxx - YPSU89X6 - 74 6xx-xxx-xxx - UK1Y32W5 - 76 7xx-xxx-xxx - WIZX23U4 - 78 8xx-xxx-xxx - SMY154T3 - 80 9xx-xxx-xxx - TLXZ45S2 - 82 letter input distance list (each step = x16 frames) S - 16 T - 15 U - 14 W - 13 X - 12 Y - 11 Z - 10 1 - 9 2 - 8 3 - 7 4 - 6 5 - 5 6 - 4 7 - 3 8 - 2 9 - 1 A - 2 (should be 0, but the input stars blank, so you need to move up or down then "back" to A) B - 1 C - 2 D - 3 E - 4 F - 5 G - 6 H - 7 I - 8 K - 9 L - 10 M - 11 N - 12 O - 13 P - 14 R - 15 S - 16
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Good thinking there... but you shouldn't have to play trough the game 20 times just to check the codes. They are stored internally in the game somewhere, they just have to be extracted. Can we get a ROM hacker on this one, please? Even if the codes are generated somehow, it should be possible to check the memory contents during the comparison operation. Make a savestate just before you take the last exit, dig around it to find where the "which code to use" variable is stored... it shouldn't be too much trouble for someone experienced.
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Some guy at gamefaqs broke the password system, and he said that he couldnt find anywhere on the rom a list of vault codes, so he assumes that its generated by using the first letter of the password as a seed. now this is weird... passwords that start with "A" dont work??? its like the passwords after 2000 gold, the game gives you a passoword which doesnt work, but come on, starting the game with a password that starts with "A" just to find out later that it doesnt work? that'd piss me off if i was playing it. btw, i'm using the password hacking to warp to each level and getting the hint for each room. i also added a code to have infinite health, keys and bombs. i just finished the game with a password that start with an "A" and nothing different happens. the code has been the longest input so far, but that must be just a coincidence. notice the game gave me the password, but you can try for yourself, it doesnt work!!! (and no, i didnt get 2000+ gold) it even gave me vault clues, and that worked. so, when you start a gauntlet game and get an "A" type password, you will have to finish the game in one sitting or reset and get another type. i know that because i have been generating passwords for each type using the password crack guide on gamefaqs. but, even though its not mentioned anywhere on the faq, i couldnt generate passwords starting with A. they just dont work. if i generate a password that starts with A and then change that letter and the according checksums protections, then it becomes a working password. I think the whole "A" issue it a lazy programming error they didnt care to fix and prefered to let it there as another cheap difficulty factor of the game. they used the first letter of the password as a seed for the vault code, and the bits for A are 00000 which is probably a bogus number for a seed, OR as its easier to crack a password that starts with A because of the way one of the password protections was made. there are only 2 protections, and one of them is related to the first letter, maybe they simply made all A passwords functionless...
Joined: 7/7/2005
Posts: 3
Hey there. I'm the one that cracked the Gauntlet PW, and posted it on GameFAQs. Thanks for the interest. It's been a while since I've thought about it. In fact, I DID mention in the FAQ that 'A' passwords do not work. It's addressed in the section labelled 'Vault Combination - Part 1'. As explained in the password FAQ, the first PW digit (vault code digit) affects all the other digits in the password, by flipping their bits where the vault digit's bits are 1. It's because of this security method that (I believe) they intentionally did not allow 'A' (00000) codes, as that would effectively remove that level of security. But, are you saying that the game will in fact generate 'A' codes on its own? That would be quite a screw-up. Maybe I misread your post on that, though. Congrats on beating Gauntlet, I never had the patience (and haven't even seen the invisible levels.) My brother-in-law spent months on it, but gave up. Personally I find cracking passwords a lot more rewarding than seeing an end-game screen. :D When I was 14 I cracked the PW to Solar Jetman, and excitedly mailed the completed results off to Nintendo Power. Got back a form letter and never saw my crack printed, then later saw someone that submitted "The Q Code!!" with all Q's, which sends you to some glitch board. That ticked me off a lot (but now as an adult I understand why they wouldn't want to release full password crack info for a game...) I should dig out my old Solar Jetman PW crack papers, and post it sometime as well. I solved both with basically the same method, which did not involve any ROM cracking of any kind. Just observation and deduction. However with the advent of GBA flash cards w/ NES emulators (read - SAVE STATE), I can solve them MUCH more quickly. (Man I remember having to put all those Solar Jetman passwords in by hand for hours...) I also made some progress on Faxanadu, but never finished it. The coolest part of PW cracks is when (like in Solar Jetman) you can generate working passwords that the game could have never given you, and see glitch boards and truly weird things. Anyone interested in having a particularly troublesome/popular game password cracked? (Hard to find one more troublesome than Gauntlet though, I imagine...)
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
yea that was one of my assumptions, that the A as a first letter would remove one of the crack protections. But the game indeed gives you "A" passwords (look at screenshot). "A" passwords also have a vault code, which doesnt follow the logic of the other vault codes. It would be interesting to find the seed formula and see WHY that happens, but it'd be useless, nonetheless. I've finished testing all of them, and from the list you gave me, only my "B" code was wrong. Which explains why it wasnt fitting the logic, now it fits. (list updated). You can update your FAQ with this list giving me proper credit, thanks.