Posted: 4/14/2007 8:07 PM
Post subject: ZZT
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curtmack
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 97
Location: Everywhere including nowhere
I got the idea to do a TAS for the game ZZT. The world in question would be TOWN, obviously (that's the one that came free with the unregistered edition, so more people would be familiar with it). Unfortunately, I tried starting one earlier today (with the rerecording DOSbox) and discovered that it has some bugs. Long story short, the new DOSbox complains when a program tries to use file IO and console IO at the same time. It is possible that there is no way to fix this. However, in case it is ever fixed, I thought I'd post my (tentative) route for this game:
  • I'm getting the keys in this order: Bank, Prison, Rube Board, House of Blues, Castle.
  • In the Bank, I'm going to grab ten gems to later bribe the troll guarding the entrance to the Castle.
  • In the "Think Fast!!" board by the prison, I'm going to make sure to grab as much ammo as I can - I need it pretty much everywhere later on, especially in the castle and the forest.
  • I'm still debating whether or not to grab the bonus at the Rube Board or the ampersand. It'd be cool, but there wouldn't be any point other than that.
Unfortunately, there are no fancy tricks for this game. All puzzles are set up so that there is no way to get around them, except to do them. This actually isn't all that bad, though, since it forces me to find the fastest way to complete them - good mental workout. Anyway, further bulletins as events warrant.
...?
Posted: 4/15/2007 4:33 AM
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RT-55J
Player (150)
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 688
Location: WA State, USA
Unfortunately, there are no fancy tricks for this game.
Wrong. When starting up the game select Mouse. If you hold P (Pause) and use the mouse to move, everything else is practically frozen in time. You can skip 95% of The Dungeons of ZZT this way. Unfortunately, Bisqwit hasn't yet added mouse recording support to DOSBox. Also, I suggest that for the sake of compatibility that you use the zip file provided here (version 3.2).
Nach wrote:
I also used to wake up every morning, open my curtains, and see the twin towers. And then one day, wasn't able to anymore, I'll never forget that.
Posted: 4/15/2007 5:41 PM
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curtmack
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 97
Location: Everywhere including nowhere
RT-55J wrote:
Unfortunately, there are no fancy tricks for this game.
Wrong. When starting up the game select Mouse. If you hold P (Pause) and use the mouse to move, everything else is practically frozen in time.
Wow. Thanks. That completely changes my route. Let's see here...
  • Completely skip the castle, just bribe the troll and quickly slip in, grab that taunting key right at the entrance, and slip back out. That means skipping the Labyrinth (especially the Six Dragons) and the Throne Room, which shaves at least ten minutes off the total time.
  • MUCH less ammo is needed for the two forest boards - I just checked, and it's possible to take an energizer all the way through to the House of Blues!
  • The Bug Maze is pie with this.
  • Since boards do not run while they are not the current board, it might actually be possible to run through the prison, grab the white key, and use it to get to the Here It Is room, get the purple key, and run back before the guards close the gate. If that doesn't work out, I can use my spare green key (see below) to at least skip the Sliding Puzzle and the Think Fast board.
  • This could be shortened even further if there was another white key I could grab and not have to use, but the only one I can think of is at the very end of the Labyrinth, which I'm skipping. As it is, I'm planning on using the green key from the Vendor to avoid having to fight the gauntlet of bears in the Prison (thus wasting ammo pick up time).
A couple of things I noticed about the trick, though. It seems that if there's a long enough wait, another cycle will occur, followed by the immediate pause. Of course that's not a problem with TAS timing since I'll never stop moving unless I have to. Also, while it's possible to open doors, get keys, and (unfortunately) take damage while maintaining time dominance, it is not possible to interact with an object - while you can touch it, you have to wait and let it get a cycle to react to your touch.
...?
Posted: 4/16/2007 12:08 AM
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LSK
Joined: 4/17/2006
Posts: 159
Best part of ZZT is that you can play custom worlds. Which makes TAS availability quite appealing.
Posted: 4/19/2007 9:25 AM
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Banarak
Joined: 1/23/2006
Posts: 31
Hah, as always my luck, I was sitting here thinking of old DOS games I might be able to abuse and play with for fun and I remembered and old ANSI game I used to make mods for. Poking around, I found the Wiki for it. I scanned over a walkthrough, then went to see if it's mentioned on the forums here. Sure enough, it is. GMTA? =) Sucks to hear about the IO problems though. Also, looks like you've got dibs on this one, so go for it. =) Only things I'm wondering though... Do you really think this would have the popular appeal to make an entertaining TAS? Watching colored characters zip around the screen is most likely only appealing to those of us that gamed way before the pre-NES days. I'd enjoy it, but I think I'm definately in the minority here on that. Also, pausing and using the mouse... hrm, kinda takes the challange out of it - playing normal but with frame perfection would be more impressive I think. (Hardest Difficulty/Fastest Time merits I guess.) But I'd still watch it, accepted or not. =)
Posted: 12/27/2007 9:37 PM
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Myria
Joined: 8/28/2006
Posts: 50
Mouse games are kind of silly to TAS because of their very wide input range. Consider Gnat Attack in Mario Paint: you could have the cursor teleport to each enemy.
Posted: 5/9/2009 1:15 AM
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curtmack
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 97
Location: Everywhere including nowhere
Myria wrote:
Mouse games are kind of silly to TAS because of their very wide input range. Consider Gnat Attack in Mario Paint: you could have the cursor teleport to each enemy.
ZZT's mouse control only cares about direction; you still only move one step regardless of how far you move the mouse.
...?
Posted: 8/18/2012 2:17 PM
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hegyak
Editor
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 1466
Location: Not playing Puyo Tetris
Asking if anything has been done. It would be interesting to see this game done.
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war. The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
Posted: 8/21/2012 9:01 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I seem to recall doing a trick like that, but without the mouse: Loaded a game, took a step, and hit Save again so quickly that only Playerface got to move. It probably helps to set the game speed lower, I think. So I'd consider this a valid trick, however you do it, but you might also want to open a "Doesn't press P" category too.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/2/2024 9:40 PM
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Darkman425
He/They
Editor, Judge, Skilled player (1293)
Joined: 9/19/2021
Posts: 263
Location: Texas
SNES TASer of 2023 Sega TASer of 2022 GBA TASer of 2022
Well over a decade since the last post here and the cross section of "makes TASes" and "interested in ZZT" is probably small but there's something I feel is worth talking about. There's a ZZT emulator called Zeta that can run ZZT worlds on modern systems such as Windows and Linux. I wonder: has anyone ever tried combining LibTAS and Zeta to try TASing a ZZT world at all? A link to Zeta, for convenience's sake: https://zeta.asie.pl/
Switch friend code: SW-2632-3851-3712