Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
I'm trying to theorycraft some sort of advantage for Super Sonic in most of the regular levels, and I'm coming up blank. Most of the speedrun routes are pretty fixed without too much room for modification...
I've just completed a Sonic 2 speedrun and I'm just looking at my ring counts at the end of all the levels now:
CP1: 47 (so you could probably get up to 50 here... in the last two seconds of the stage)
CP2: 35
AR1: 39
AR2: This stage can go to 50, but only by the time you get to the boss and there's no advantage to even getting a hit early on this boss since you have to wait to activate the glitch
CN1: 15 (this route is different in the TAS anyway I think, with the zip across the top)
CN2: 45 (with a 10 ring box you could pick up for practically zero loss, so you could have Super Sonic for the boss maybe)
HT1: This route requires taking a hit. You could pick up invincibility (or get 50 rings before the glitch, heh) but I can't see 50 rings close enough to the (entire) route to make it worthwhile
HT2: 40 (but with a good number of ten ring boxes that would cost little time. This is one level that would benefit)
MC1: 38
MC2: 43 (think you could get to 50 here, and that would save maybe a handful of frames on the boss? :P)
OO1: Definitely not
OO2: TAS route wouldn't go anywhere near this either
Metro 1: 66 (though I have no idea what the TAS route for this stage is now, I do feel like this stage would benefit though)
Metro 2: skipped
Metro 3: skipped
SC: This actually goes to 2:05 with Super Sonic. Instant second saved!
WF: This is perhaps the most interesting stage. You can get up to 50 rings before you go through the propellor, but either you lose them by taking the hit, or you transform beforehand... and can't go through the propellor at all. A third option would actually be to take the shield and have Tails run underneath and get the rings on the lower level, and use that to take the hit on the propellor.
So I suspect three levels would benefit from 100% (assuming getting all the emeralds in EH). It's kind of a shame that the two levels that probably would have benefited the most in the past are now essentially skipped. :(
On the other hand, if you decide to get the emeralds as you go along, rather than all at once, I feel like you have more interesting routing options at least in the early stages. For example, you might have to consider whether to get one or two emeralds in EH1, weighing it up against potential advantages elsewhere (I think when stanski first routed 100% his seventh emerald was in HT2... which is a level I feel would benefit from Super Sonic, so perhaps taking the time out for another emerald earlier would be worth the trouble).
A third option might be to disallow horizontal underflow, but I'm not sure how I feel about that as a category (even though it already exists for Sonic 3). It would at least make Metro 2 and 3 different/interesting from the any%.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that you don't really lose anything from the early game levels by doing the special stages throughout (in fact they would become slightly more interesting, IMO) and you'd still have Super Sonic early enough to take advantage in the late game. Thoughts?
I'm assuming in your speculations you took into calculation Tails' ability to pick up rings whilst slightly off-screen and the ability to control him via multi-track recording?
Could perhaps watching the video from the starting topic offer some thoughts on how to obtain 50 rings whilst maintaining a relative speed?
I'm considering about disallowing underflow because as much as I love seeing the game ripped apart in other runs (the any% for example, it was hilarious to watch the stage just scroll) you wouldn't get to see a good demonstration of SuperSonic with this, but I'm still in debate about it.
And not that I don't appreciate your analysis but you're trying to keep the SuperSonic (100%) at beating or remaining close to the any% run which is relatively impossible given the route planning and extra time to the special stages. So I feel if there is going to be such a difference that it won't keep/exceed the any% that it might as well ignore it in terms of trying to challenge it.
It is clear that the best way to quickly get 50 rings, is to take the 10-ring boxes who are on the way. But not always is right, the transform, Sonic takes a moment to turn besides that you have to jump for it, but if you are jumping while Sonic is tilted becomes immediately.
EDIT: Now I remember, I had found a glitch in WFZ, favoring the time of fight in boss battle.
WF: This is perhaps the most interesting stage. You can get up to 50 rings before you go through the propellor, but either you lose them by taking the hit, or you transform beforehand... and can't go through the propellor at all. A third option would actually be to take the shield and have Tails run underneath and get the rings on the lower level, and use that to take the hit on the propellor.
I believe Tails is too busy replacing landing gear with rockets to bother with trivial things like rings at the time.
mike89 wrote:
A third option might be to disallow horizontal underflow, but I'm not sure how I feel about that as a category (even though it already exists for Sonic 3). It would at least make Metro 2 and 3 different/interesting from the any%.
There is also the no zips Sonic1 and the recent 'no ultra spindash' Sonic Advance1 which have a similar self imposed restrictions. No (or low) glitch Sonic runs do seem to be getting popular. I for one would prefer this.
I assume the no damage restriction will force you to take routes where Super Sonic would be faster?
