Game objectives

  • Emulator used: Dolphin 3.0-378 (more-save-fixes)
  • Takes no damage
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Starts from a saved state or SRAM (.dtm or save file) [links no longer exist]
  • Forgoes time-saving death
  • Uses hardest difficulty
  • Manipulates luck

Emulator details

  • Dual core off
  • Idle skipping off
  • Progressive scan on
  • DSP LLE recompiler (this requires you to dump files from a wii or gamecube. If you need help with this, or otherwise cannot do it, PM me, and I'll help).
  • Standard gamecube controller in port 1, no other controllers/wiimotes connected.
It should sync on any version after 3.0-365

Comments

This is a 28,475 frame improvement over my previous, canceled, submission #3428: RachelB's Wii Muramasa: The Demon Blade in 1:12:54.32.
Three significant improvements were made over my last run of this game. The first is significantly better luck manipulation. Many more random encounters were skipped than previously, and when i could not avoid a fight entirely, they were almost always either extremely short, or smoke bombed. All in all, i saved 11117 frames over my previous run due to better luck manipulation.
The other major improvements were better routing and boss fights. Although forging new weapons requires quite a bit of detouring (approximately 2300 frames worth throughout the run), it ended up saving much more time than i expected. All in all, i saved 16997 frames on the bosses, of which i suspect at least 10k of which can be attributed to having better weapons, the rest being mostly the result of improved attack patterns (3 attacks followed by a downslash).
Other than this, approximately 2480 frames were saved through small miscellaneous improvements. Of note, using air dashes to move faster in certain areas saved around 5 seconds, and doing less shopping (this is mostly thanks to better luck manipulation though) saved about 13 seconds. The rest were small gains to traveling and menu use.

Bosses

Blue Monk

This was just better optimized. 536 frames were saved in total. A slight advantage was had thanks to the better attack pattern, but in this fight it actually didn't make much difference, because the boss is so tall.

Wanyudo

The Botan Muramasa was equipped for a 5% damage bonus. This actually makes almost no difference at all. A total of 81 frames were saved, mainly as a result of slightly better optimization.

Yukinojo

553 frames were saved here. This fight was disappointing because so much time was lost because of the dynamic difficulty in this game. The improvements here were the result of fighting him on the ground, instead of in the air. Luck was manipulated pretty heavily to delay him from drawing a new sword as long as possible, and a technique was used to move through the boss while he attacked, allowing me to attack almost continuously at the highest damage rate possible at this point in the game.

Ippondatara

This is the first boss with a large advantage thanks to having better weapons. In total, this boss was 3,639 faster than my previous run. The biggest improvement came from delaying damage to force the secondary hp bar to drain more. In addition to simply doing more damage per hit, i also used the secret art flash, which deals around twice as much dps as normal attacks. Furhermore, the boss takes significantly more damage while in its boar form, so i manipulated it to stay there for an entire hp bar, after which i damaged the foot so fast that it skipped the transition up the the sky. It was actually possible to drain all of his hp during the second foot phase, and this would have saved around 5 seconds, but unfortunately it won't actually die unless it is in boar form. This was also the first boss to be impossible to improve before its final hp bar, due to the dynamic difficulty in this game.

Chimera

2,754 frames were saved here. Again, the stronger weapon helps tremendously here. More than that though, was using drawn back slashes to force him to fall to the ground. Thanks goes to youkai for figuring that out. I again managed to drain every single hp bar on the first possible frame.

Big Oni

This would be the third boss in a row to be perfect up until its final hp bar. A total of 3,267 frames were saved here. The botan muramasa helped a little with the extra 5% attack, as did the better attack pattern. Mostly though, the gains were had by manipulating the boss to stand still for the entire fight, and never attack, even a single time.

Raijin

Only 1,015 frames saved this time, at the cost of significant entertainment value. All but one hp bar was drained at the first possible frame, which was <1 second short of perfect. The main difference was destroying the orbs around her, making it easier to continue attacking without relying on earth hornet, which does terrible damage.

Fudo-Myoou

Last but not least, Fudo-Myoou. The obvious improvement here is that instead of being level 14 (enemies scale with level), i'm 12, and instead of using a 33 attack sword from level 9, i'm using a 53 attack sword that would normally require level 14. The lack of hp bars made this fight extremely easy to improvable. Doing around 70% more damage per hit, while the bosses had less hp, along with a slightly optimized strategy, i managed to save a massive 5,152 frames on this fight.

Thanks

I'd like to thank Youkai, from SDA. After seeing my tas, he decided to do a speed run of the game. In addition to finding a few different improvements i used in my run, he also provided the motivation to redo the run, by beating/matching some of my boss fight times, in real time.

Nach: I'm not sure that using hard mode here was necessary, as a goal of avoiding damage would be the same as hard mode, and not require starting from SRAM. In any case, I found this to be a nice movie. Even though there was a lot of running, it still was pretty cool, and it was a bit involved as you needed to avoid enemies in the process. The fights were very entertaining. Accepting.

natt: ...gnissecorP


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Ah okay. Yeah it seems to be decoded in CPU only. What does 10 Bit do exactly?
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Slowking wrote:
Ah okay. Yeah it seems to be decoded in CPU only. What does 10 Bit do exactly?
More accurate colors with less banding (generally not a big issue to most people) and better coding efficiency.
RachelB
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Player (129)
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Posts: 1579
Slowking wrote:
Ah okay. Yeah it seems to be decoded in CPU only. What does 10 Bit do exactly?
Better quality and smaller file size.
mklip2001
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Posts: 2227
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I salute you, natt, for getting an awesome encode of this made. Though more thanks goes to rog, of course, for making the run in the first place! There is a lot of run-right-for-justice, but it's fairly interesting to watch compared to your average action game because of the lush settings, nice music, and the handy minimap. (I also realized, it's certainly no worse than most of the down-time in RPG runs.) The bosses were pretty cool too. I'd say Raijin was generally the coolest fight, even if entertainment was sacrificed for the sake of speed. Yes vote.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
RachelB
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Posts: 1579
mklip2001 wrote:
I'd say Raijin was generally the coolest fight, even if entertainment was sacrificed for the sake of speed.
I really loved how my previous fight of Raijin came out, but it was just too much slower with better weapons :(
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
rog wrote:
Slowking wrote:
Ah okay. Yeah it seems to be decoded in CPU only. What does 10 Bit do exactly?
Better quality and smaller file size.
So why is it a fringe format?
RachelB
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Posts: 1579
Slowking wrote:
rog wrote:
Slowking wrote:
Ah okay. Yeah it seems to be decoded in CPU only. What does 10 Bit do exactly?
Better quality and smaller file size.
So why is it a fringe format?
Because 10 year old computers can't play it.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
I googled a little. Guess it's relatively new. That explains the lack of support through hardware and that it's still fringe in general. Is there a short 1080p video encoded with 10 Bit somewhere? Would like to test if this computer can handle it.
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I actually really enjoyed it. I was surprised how much nice visuals made up for the fact that a lot of the run was spent just running. Yes vote here. Well done rog
Has never colored a dinosaur.
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Slowking wrote:
So why is it a fringe format?
Because of people like this: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=302987#302987
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Slowking wrote:
I googled a little. Guess it's relatively new. That explains the lack of support through hardware and that it's still fringe in general. Is there a short 1080p video encoded with 10 Bit somewhere? Would like to test if this computer can handle it.
Why limit yourself to just 1080p? While you're at it, go for a real test.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
I'm not looking to break my computer. It will never be able to run that, after all it's a laptop. I'm just curious about 1080p 10 Bit video, because I'm sure that will come up quite a bit in the next few years. I could ofcourse wait, till I actually need it, but I'm a very curious guy. ;)
RachelB
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Player (129)
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Posts: 1579
Slowking wrote:
I'm not looking to break my computer. It will never be able to run that, after all it's a laptop. I'm just curious about 1080p 10 Bit video, because I'm sure that will come up quite a bit in the next few years. I could ofcourse wait, till I actually need it, but I'm a very curious guy. ;)
here
Post subject: Input Wanted
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I'm considering accepting this. However I'd like some input. This movie starts from SRAM, in order to access the hardest level of difficulty. But from what I'm led to understand, there actually is no perceivable difference in the gameplay whatsoever from hard mode. In theory this exact same run could be made from regular mode with a clean start. Do you see some benefit from hard mode to make it worthwhile in this game? Or should I reject this?
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
RachelB
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Posts: 1579
Perceivable is the wrong word i think. I did say that there was no noticeable difference, but these words aren't quite the same thing. There are differences, however it's unlikely anyone would ever notice them, unless i pointed them out. If you knew what to look for, however, they could be seen. Although i can cancel most damage i take, it does take some time, and is slower than just getting hit normally. Having only 1 hp prevents me from taking any hits, unless i cancel the damage. So my only choice is to cancel the damage (if possible), or not get hit at all. This is especially noticeable towards the end of Raijin. If i could get hit here, this would have been a good bit faster. It's also important to note that i can only cancel damage while in the air (or sometimes if i get knocked into the air; also note that i do ~50% more damage on the ground than in the air), and the attack does not break my weapon. In the case of raijin, it actually would have been fastest at one point to intentionally break my weapon, because it allows an instant quick draw, which would have destroyed all of the thunder balls around me. Unfortunately, breaking my weapon on shigurui means instant death. So instead i had to dance around the thunder balls, as well as her thunder punch attack (which is always automatically blocked, destroying your weapon and damaging you if you get hit), costing more time than it would have taken to simply get hit and switch weapons. That being said, the main reason i chose to do it on shigurui was for the novelty of having 1 hp. So if you want to reject this because of an unwritten/ambiguous rule, i won't cry over it, and will only ask that you reword the rules to something that accurately describes what is not allowed.
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Okay, that is a good explanation. Is everyone else satisfied with this?
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
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I am.
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I'm satisfied. I think the run looks better without damage. Despite starting from SRAM, it will be placed in Wii movies, and not the Hacks/Demos section, right? Or would it need to start from a savestate to be placed there?
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I think everything with 'starts from SRAM' gets placed in that section.
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CoolKirby wrote:
I think the run looks better without damage.
Be that as it may, a no damage run can be done without using hard mode.
CoolKirby wrote:
Despite starting from SRAM, it will be placed in Wii movies, and not the Hacks/Demos section, right? Or would it need to start from a savestate to be placed there?
We place "impure" movies, those that start from SRAM or save state in a special section.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
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Would this "impure" movie appear on the Wii page next to the Mega Man 10 runs, or would it be only available in the Hacks/Demos section like the Super Mario Kart run? I don't want this movie to be eventually obsoleted by someone using the regular mode, taking damage, and allowing weapon breaking, but I know rog has put in a lot of hard work making this, so I don't know what to decide.
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CoolKirby wrote:
Would this "impure" movie appear on the Wii page next to the Mega Man 10 runs, or would it be only available in the Hacks/Demos section like the Super Mario Kart run?
Impure movies only appear on the hacks/demo page.
CoolKirby wrote:
I don't want this movie to be eventually obsoleted by someone using the regular mode, taking damage, and allowing weapon breaking, but I know rog has put in a lot of hard work making this, so I don't know what to decide.
That's a judge decision if taking damage and not taking damage should be combined or not. For this of course, strong input from the viewers is welcome.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
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Nach wrote:
Impure movies only appear on the hacks/demo page.
What about the Mega Man 10 "Bass, Hard Mode" and Metal Gear Solid runs? One uses existing save data and one uses a preinitialized memory card with data on it, yet are on the movie pages for their respective consoles.
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CoolKirby wrote:
Nach wrote:
Impure movies only appear on the hacks/demo page.
What about the Mega Man 10 "Bass, Hard Mode" and Metal Gear Solid runs? One uses existing save data and one uses a preinitialized memory card with data on it, yet are on the movie pages for their respective consoles.
Looks like an oversight by the publisher which needs to be fixed.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
RachelB
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CoolKirby wrote:
Nach wrote:
Impure movies only appear on the hacks/demo page.
What about the Mega Man 10 "Bass, Hard Mode" and Metal Gear Solid runs? One uses existing save data and one uses a preinitialized memory card with data on it, yet are on the movie pages for their respective consoles.
There are others as well. Anyway, before starting this, i read the rules and guidelines. The guidelines say basically nothing about starting from a save. The rules however say it's not allowed, but then goes on to say it's allowed for (apparently) any reason, so long as a verification movie is provided. Maybe i should have asked for clarification about the terribly worded and contradictory rules, but i didn't, so i guess that's my fault. If this is really such a big deal that it either can't be published, or can only be published to some far off corner of the site that no one will ever find it at, i'll just make this simple for you and cancel the submission. Again, all i'll ask is that the rules be reworded so they match the criteria submissions will be judged by. Also, this won't sync when hexed to use the lowest difficulty. Of course then i'd imagine it'd be rejected for not using the harder difficulty, so it probably doesn't matter anyway, eh?