Experienced player (603)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Spider-Waffle wrote:
What about RBAing bombs?
RBA is banned in this category.
Joined: 2/28/2012
Posts: 160
Location: Philadelphia
So if we are getting bottle again, is it faster to get a fairy in Fire Temple or to get all the HCs as usual?
Experienced player (603)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
As only 2 HCs are required to beat Fire without tunic and ocarina (with ocarina only 1 HC is needed), it is still much faster to get the HCs.
Experienced player (504)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
Only one is required even without the ocarina. Whenever I did that timer stopping thing in my run, it was just because it looked cool.
Experienced player (603)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Good to know. It might still be better to grab the 2nd container to be able to execute damage consuming tricks like "Ledge Grab Boosting".
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Why grab one at all? In the next MST you will have a bottle for the death warps. With a bottle you can delay the timer even in volvagias room.
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
this is fun. So what is the conclusion? 0, 1 or 2 heart containers?
Experienced player (603)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
I can't really tell, synx. I'd say, at least 1 one, though, because that way we could do way more ledge boosts and each of them saves at least a second. But then again we have to die very often in this run now due to the Death CS skips after beating each temple, so 3 hearts would make this quite a bit easier. There's a delay before the blue warp in Jabu is active. You can immediately sidehop to it and it still won't load immediately. Maybe getting the Heart Container there let's us get rid of the delay, so getting the HC would cost only a few frames. Needs to be tested ;)
Experienced player (690)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
slightly offtopic,but iwas playing oot today and i noticed if you die in a roll you can still sidehop and backflip while dead.Is it known?it could be interesting for an easier or faster cutscene skip or WW. Are there any uses for a dead megaflip or hop?can you die while superslidin(with a non knockdown form of damage?
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Joined: 3/17/2010
Posts: 33
I discovered today the reason why watching the title intro crashes the DC wrong warp. The pointer value stored at 801CA208 points to the RAM at which the next cutscene data is stored. Once the intro starts, the pointer value is set to 80365080. The block of ram at 80365080 does not seem to change when swapping to different scenes, but the DC boss room scene overwrites this block, "corrupting" the cutscene, and causing the crash. Also, wrong warping into scenes without a cutscene entrance table is definitely turning out to be a hell of a lot more complex than previously assumed.
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
I'm sure if anyone has verified if Tektite is faster that LLR. Someone did a RTS comparison without any HESS, and tektite was about 17s slower. So in trying to estimate the difference, I'm going with a day time system. Bloobleibla's TAS has 16s extra between egg hatch and KV, could be 14s if not getting rubies in lake, and spends 30s where sun isn't changing. ZFGs RTS spends 96s where sun isn't changing, make that a TAS and it'd be maybe 90s. So 90-(14+30)= 46s. So Tektite should be about 44s faster stopping at that. But for TAS with LLR way, you could 15 nuts and a bunch of rubies for free while waiting and skip picking and selling bugs and getting nuts. This save about 7s for bugs+sell, and 3s getting and RBAing nuts, both will be able to throw nuts for free during KD fight. So tektite is still 36s faster about. Please check if there's a flaw in this estimate. For bomb RBA, I've calculated for a RTS it should be able 30s faster, for a TAS it would even better since you can check less bushes and get even more bombs and check bushes you do check faster using bombs. Getting Well chus is another option but I'm pretty sure that's slower, since it takes the TAS about 2:50 extra to get the well chus, where as you can RBA bombs and gauntlets in 30s and pick up drops in 10s or so. I don't thinking having the extra Aslides before cojiro could possibly save 2:10 So If I'm mistaken it's pretty clear what the new any% ganonless route should be?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
-.- You do not listen at all, do you? We will get the rod from the fishing pond. We won't sell bugs. Why would we? What would we ever need the money for? We will get nuts on the way from the pond to Kakariko, from a tree in HF. It's on the way. Max 5s lost. Ofcourse we are going to RBA bomb bag and bombs. There is no question about it. Why do you refuse to listen?!
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Well I thought I may as well do the time estimates since I didn't see them anywhere. I don't know why you have to be so negative about that, and so hateful in general, or how you think you're helping. I'm not sure if we know which specific tree is ideal to check for nuts, the one large patch in the south as 6 nut trees and is the only obvious choice, but which tree, also I don't think there's any 5 rupee trees near them. I'm not sure what the Rupee plan is though, since you need 110 total, and can only hold 99 until you get adult wallet. You can get 92-95 if you get the platform and grass rubies, river bridge rubies and 2 chain rupees, but that's still 15 or so more you need from trees, I don't think there's many trees that can drop 5, Even if there were 3, I'm not sure if that's faster than selling bugs, is there something I'm missing? If you get all 3 of the chains you'd still be at 99r, needing 11r more.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
by the way, they're rupees, not rubies.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
rog wrote:
by the way, they're rupees, not rubies.
yep!
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Well I thought I may as well do the time estimates since I didn't see them anywhere. I don't know why you have to be so negative about that, and so hateful in general, or how you think you're helping. I'm not sure if we know which tree is ideal to check for nuts, there's the 6 in the NW corner, but those are all out of the way, and the one large patch in the south as 6 nut trees. I'm not sure what the Ruby plan is though, since you need 110 total, and can only hold 99 until you get adult wallet. You can get 92-95 if you get the platform and grass rubies, river bridge rubies and 2 chain rubies, but that's still 15 or so more you need from trees, I don't think there's many trees that can drop 5, Even if there were 3, I'm not sure if that's faster than selling bugs, is there something I'm missing? If you get all 3 of the chains you'd still be at 99r, needing 11r more.
If you would LISTEN you would know which trees. I suggest you read back in this thread and you'll know. We need 120r, not 110. Don't really know where you get 110 from. You can easily get the missing 40 by slashung a few bushes at LH.
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
For Spider-Waffle (and anyone else who missed it)
Slowking wrote:
Nuts will not drop from needle trees, but all the leaf trees in hyrule field. You can only get one drop from one tree. Every drop will give you 5 nuts. (Those trees are fun. They will drop bombs, nuts, rupees, arrows and maybe some other stuff) The place to get them is: On the way back from lake hylia we slide of a poe. Right next to the poe there is a field of leaf trees.
Also the juxtaposition of Slowking's recent posts and that Navi avatar amuses me :)
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Well if the game says rupees that's some bad engrish: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rupee?s=t I'm pretty sure it should be rubies: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rubies?s=t Anyway, I don't see anywhere where the specific tree nuts is mentioned. I guess if you're going to use pond twice you need an extra 20, but that's not until the end, you could get the 20 in the box by the skulita or the chains when leaving market the second time. Getting 15 from bushes in lake plus extra 20 in river or chains plus platforms is still going to take some time, where as bugs+selling is only about 7s, so it's pretty close, certainly not obvious without more precise timing.
For Spider-Waffle (and anyone else who missed it) Slowking wrote: Nuts will not drop from needle trees, but all the leaf trees in hyrule field. You can only get one drop from one tree. Every drop will give you 5 nuts. (Those trees are fun. They will drop bombs, nuts, rupees, arrows and maybe some other stuff) The place to get them is: On the way back from lake hylia we slide of a poe. Right next to the poe there is a field of leaf trees.
The specific tree is never mentioned, which is what I said...
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Well if the game says rupees that's some bad engrish:
No, you are wrong. Rubys are a specific kind of gem stone, which are red. Rupees come in all sorts of colors. It's a fantasy word, deal with it.
Anyway, I don't see anywhere where the specific tree nuts is mentioned. I guess if you're going to use pond twice you need an extra 20, but that's not until the end, you could get the 20 in the box by the skulita or the chains when leaving market the second time.
Yeah because the broken bridge as adault totally has chains. -.-
Getting 15 from bushes in lake plus extra 20 in river or chains is still going to take some time, where has bugs+selling is only about 7s, so it's pretty close, certainly not obvious without more precise timing.
Yeah sure whatever. I don't have the will to explain why this is stupid.
The specific tree is never mentioned, which is what I said...
Totally, that's why you were talking about trees in the north west. You are never wrong, oh great allmighty being!
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4036
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Well if the game says rupees that's some bad engrish
Regardless of how accurate the term is, the "rupee" is the currency in every Zelda game as far as I know (except at least two of the CD-i games). So when people are talking about "rupees", they are using the term Ocarina of Time uses to refer to this game's currency (For example, the message: "You got a Blue Rupee! That's 5 Rupees!").
bkDJ wrote:
Also the juxtaposition of Slowking's recent posts and that Navi avatar amuses me :)
I found it funny that the Navi avatar was commanding Link to listen in the corner of the post where Slowking asked why Spider-Waffle wasn't listening.
Joined: 2/9/2006
Posts: 124
Oops, seems I've entered another "Slowking being an annoying, unnecessarily large asshole" zone. Seriously you guys should put a sign up or something to warn readers who honestly don't give a fuck about this petty ass drama between Slowking and Spider Waffle. It's like watching two 9 year olds fight over a fucking gummy bear. It's pathetic. Grow the fuck up. Everyone else, carry on.
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
TheFrigz wrote:
Oops, seems I've entered another "Slowking being an annoying, unnecessarily large asshole" zone. Seriously you guys should put a sign up or something to warn readers who honestly don't give a fuck about this petty ass drama between Slowking and Spider Waffle. It's like watching two 9 year olds fight over a fucking gummy bear. It's pathetic. Grow the fuck up. Everyone else, carry on.
Well tank you kind sir, I will indeed carry on then: "I have not TASed at all, but I did the precise timing of getting rubies instead of rupees selling fish, but that was for RTS. (15+7) seconds getting nuts in the northwest. And with TAS that will save even more time. I don't see how you can say anything else is clearly faster. I have contributed so much to the speedrunningcommunity. I don't know why noone listens to me. I came up with HISS and bombsliding afterall. I don't see what any of you guys are helping out with." On the other hand: "I don't TAS this game either, but you are so stupid omg, we are not doing that. Are you even reading this thread? I know so f-ing much about this game, all your suggestions are complete shit, but I won't bother to explain why. Just stfu and respect me." Thank you all, and good night.
Active player (426)
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
Synx wrote:
Well tank you kind sir, I will indeed carry on then: "I have not TASed at all, but I did the precise timing of getting rubies instead of rupees selling fish, but that was for RTS. (15+7) seconds getting nuts in the northwest. And with TAS that will save even more time. I don't see how you can say anything else is clearly faster. I have contributed so much to the speedrunningcommunity. I don't know why noone listens to me. I came up with HISS and bombsliding afterall. I don't see what any of you guys are helping out with." On the other hand: "I don't TAS this game either, but you are so stupid omg, we are not doing that. Are you even reading this thread? I know so f-ing much about this game, all your suggestions are complete shit, but I won't bother to explain why. Just stfu and respect me." Thank you all, and good night.
Okay, that actually made me laugh. Well put. I do understand Slowking's frustration. It'd be nice to discuss serious strategies and ideas for the TAS on the TAS forums. Spider-Waffle consistently comes up with strategies that are clearly just wrong 9 times out of 10, and if he'd do a little fact checking instead of always coming here and asking someone else to do it, then the thread wouldn't end up the way it is. Doesn't justify Slowking's aggressive response, of course. Ultimately though the best solution would be to just not comment on the matter any more. Spider-Waffle can try to understand why it isn't always a good thing to post every idea he has without fact checking against existing publications, or he can ignore that. He may still come up with good ideas occasionally, and someone who has the patience for him (like Grunz) can sift through his posts for the occasional decent suggestion. Otherwise, just skip right past any post with a ninja turtle next to it. So, seriously, can we just, y'know, not talk about it any more? That'd be nice. (Sorry if I ruin the fun, sonicpacker.)
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Synx wrote:
"I don't TAS this game either, but you are so stupid omg, we are not doing that. Are you even reading this thread? I know so f-ing much about this game, all your suggestions are complete shit, but I won't bother to explain why. Just stfu and respect me."
Because I don't TAS this game I don't claim to know precise timings, what is definatly faster, etc, when it's a case that isn't clear cut. Spider Waffle does and he is annoying as hell. The problem isn't even that his suggestions are complete shit, but that he has been told that they are complete shit in kinder words before, but won't stop bringing them up over and over again. But you are right, I spent way too much time with this crap. I'm going to ignore him from now on. You guys have fun explaining to him, over and over again, why his ideas are stupid. Let's see how long you can stay friendly.
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
I think it's a combination of SlowKing not being a native English speaker and just being snide, rude and negative person in general, and me not being the best at communicating precisely what I mean in ways others understand. I don't think I gave a single suggestion in any of these posts or said a different route was faster. I gave good estimates for the different routes and confirmed the ones we wanted to use were faster, asked which specific tree we would be using, which got confused horribly somehow, and pointing out that picking up an extra bug and selling it is about 7s extra, where as getting the rupees the alternate ways isn't precisely known so it isn't obvious which method of getting enough rupees is faster, unless I'm missing something. Slowking, I can understand why he would misunderstand me and be so quick to negatively derail a thread, that's what he does and always will do. I don't know why others want to join in his derailment and snide negativity. My original post as whole a fine productive articulation which didn't step on any toes or suggest anything stupid that should have been fact checked, but because slowking is what he is, we get pages of snide, negative, strawman and derailment.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."