Forgive me if I cannot start a separate topic for this, if that's the case please just delete this topic do not merge it.First a bit of history, back in 2009 I began making a Super Sonic run, with alot of route planning I managed to obtain all of the Chaos Emeralds rather quickly towards the end of Emerald Hill Act2.
Upon showing my input and asking for ideas and changes it quickly became apparent that with the goals set at the time it was a bad choice to collect all of the emeralds as soon as possible, because it would be loosing so much time it could never catch up with the any% run.
antd wrote:
DDRKhat wrote:
You do realize that the subject of a "All Emeralds" run happened quite a long while ago? It got shunned for taking too long but it's still worth a look at just to see the potential use of tails getting Emeralds.
Shortly after I began to re-do and then quickly lost the time to finish that run but have since been wanting to get back into it but with my original goal plans in mind currently they are;
Priority: Obtain Super Sonic as soon as possible.
No damage.
1 Player controls 2 Characters.
I'm also considering a way to make the Special Stages entertaining (which is going to be practically impossible.. but..) by giving each one a gimmick.
Stage 1 - Obtain all rings (Hopefully it won't be beyond 200)
Stage 2 - ??
Stage 3 - ??
Stage 4 - ??
Stage 5 - ??
Stage 6 - Mirror Players (P1 LEFT=P1 RIGHT)
Stage 7- Identical Players (Both use exact same input)
Feedback/suggestions on these goals would be highly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
I like the way you did the bonus levels. It felt like you put a lot of time into making them entertaining, but at the same time making them as fast as possible. It was also a nice touch that you balanced out the amount of rings both Sonic and Tails picked up. I imagine doing so might shorten the score counter at the end of the bonus stages count down sooner because the ring counters would end at the same time? I think you should continue if possible.
On an unrelated note, I now know why the first zone is called Emerald Hill Zone.
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The special stages need redoing, I was aiming for small gimmicks in each one that aren't immediately visible to the player. In the above video in Stage2/3 (Cannot remember which) I was originally aiming to 100% ring but found that it would delay the score tally so changed input so only obtained 100 but if I was to re-do this I would go for full ring obtain in Stage1 and hope it doesn't delay too much (105 would be a mere 4 frames, for example)
Stage6 both players were controlled at exactly the same time but mirror'd inputs (P1 LEFT=P2 RIGHT)
Stage7 both players were controlled exactly the same but it turns out I moved Tails a little-bit right near the start and didn't go back and fix it.
all sonic runs on the site aim for in game time, so the score tally shouldn't be a problem...
Is it possible to get all rings in all bonus stages barring the last one?
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
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Is impossible to obtain all rings in all stages special in some, the rings come to the right, left and above at a time. But not a bad idea to do that in the first (and there is possible).
And with respect to the account of points, the 10000 points to get the emerald descends 100 points for each frame, ie with 100 frames gives you all the score. So, the most convenient is that Sonic and Tails get the same amount of rings, if necessary, but no one should have more than 100, else, for each extra ring one frame more are lose.
If you are interested in making the special stages as fast as possible, you can try doing the run in one of my hacks that speedup the special stages; one is about 5/2 times faster, the other is about 9/2 times faster (and this is the only difference). I can provide IPS patches to them if you are interested.
@FuzZerd you seem to misunderstand. I was referring to get ALL of the rings in most stages. needlessly grabbing 200 seems fruitless.
@Felipe True, I forgot about that stage that did that. I did only intend to grab all of the rings from merely the first stage as I did fully take into account the time lost for rings beyond 200 (thus why the above video's ..2nd.. stage? starts to look like it's going for 100% rings then stops @ 200 to save time)
@marzojr I would be find with doing it on the regular Sonic2, I'm interested but weary of using a hacked version of Sonic2 just to get the Special Stages done faster.
@all Do you think my goals are okay?
I think it's a run that is missing in TASvideos, the fact of getting quickly to SuperSonic is interesting. But more interesting would be, find a good use (fun) throughout the game. I would like to see run to SuperSonic at extreme speeds, however SuperSonic has a disadvantage against Sonic.
Sometimes, it cant gain more speed giving some jumps, and Sonic can, but you would save the need of do many spindashes.
In my opinion, this set of goals (in order of priority) would make for a better run:
- 100% completion
- No death
- Aims for in-game time instead of real time
- Aims for fastest real time
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If you do manage to collect all the rings in a special stage, you get a Perfect Bonus for that, which extends the score tally to the point where it won't matter how evenly split the rings are between characters.
@Pr. Pwnage - Are you certain of this? Have you seen a "Perfect" bonus in a special stage? either way I think it'd be entertaining for the viewer to see both characters with exactly the same rings, but knowing that there is additional time for the "perfect" to countdown is helpful.
@Zeupar - That seems fair, but I would like to stress my goal of obtaining Super Sonic as soon as possible.
Has any thought been given to doing it like the s3&k hyper run, where you just have all the emeralds already and can immediately start 100%ing GHZ without constant interruptions by (IMHO boring) special stages?
Yes, you'd need to use the code which is discouraged by the rules but so is starting from SRAM and the hyper run does that.
@Pr. Pwnage - Are you certain of this? Have you seen a "Perfect" bonus in a special stage? either way I think it'd be entertaining for the viewer to see both characters with exactly the same rings, but knowing that there is additional time for the "perfect" to countdown is helpful.
I'm pretty sure Pwnage is right, though I admit it's been a long time since I messed with the S2 bonus stages.
In any event, it's not possible to get perfects on all bonus stages, even with control of two characters, as one of the last two emeralds has a segment where rings and bombs show up in basically random positions at high speed.
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@Pr. Pwnage - Are you certain of this? Have you seen a "Perfect" bonus in a special stage? either way I think it'd be entertaining for the viewer to see both characters with exactly the same rings, but knowing that there is additional time for the "perfect" to countdown is helpful.
The "perfect" bonus is a 50000 point countdown, plus the time it takes for the other countdowns to leave the screen and the time it takes for the perfect countdown itself to enter the screen.
Derakon wrote:
In any event, it's not possible to get perfects on all bonus stages, even with control of two characters, as one of the last two emeralds has a segment where rings and bombs show up in basically random positions at high speed.
Only for the last emerald, and only the rings; but yeah, it is not possible to get a perfect bonus there.
Has any thought been given to doing it like the s3&k hyper run, where you just have all the emeralds already and can immediately start 100%ing GHZ without constant interruptions by (IMHO boring) special stages?
Yes, you'd need to use the code which is discouraged by the rules but so is starting from SRAM and the hyper run does that.
Whilst boring admittedly. I can't help but say I would be interested in the route one would take to get the emeralds as fast as possible, similar to how the PERFECT BONUS run has interesting routes for that particular goal.
I like your special stage run, DDR, and I'd like to see it improved, but... If you want to do a Super Sonic run of the full game, would it make much difference after EHZ? I mean, unlike Sonic 3, levels are so straightforwards here that transforming (which needs 50 Rings) would be unnecessary or really short lived in most cases, and there isn't a final level like Doomsday Zone. Also, no Big Rings to get 50 instantly. You could try workarounds to get more Rings, but in such a linear game it doesn't seem to be productive.
Antes de una TAS:
-Malo: ¡Voy a conquistar el mundo!
-Héroe: ¡Por poco tiempo!
I like your special stage run, DDR, and I'd like to see it improved, but... If you want to do a Super Sonic run of the full game, would it make much difference after EHZ? I mean, unlike Sonic 3, levels are so straightforwards here that transforming (which needs 50 Rings) would be unnecessary or really short lived in most cases, and there isn't a final level like Doomsday Zone. Also, no Big Rings to get 50 instantly. You could try workarounds to get more Rings, but in such a linear game it doesn't seem to be productive.
Don't forget Tails can get into various locations to help get rings for Sonic, this can lead to clever route-planning to get 50 rings as soon as possible whilst maintaining relatively high-speed.
I doubt it'll ever gain a net speed over the other runs but I just think this is a category that needs doing, and I would personally enjoy watching clever route-planning producing 7 Emeralds within the first two stages.
again, all Sonic TASes uses in-game time, so long score tallys should not be a problem.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
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So, you're going to try using Super Sonic in most stages, even if getting him wastes a bit of time compared to any%? IMO, that's a good thing, definitely focus on transforming! The first stage is all right, it's the rest of the run I'm pointing to.
Antes de una TAS:
-Malo: ¡Voy a conquistar el mundo!
-Héroe: ¡Por poco tiempo!
DDRKhat,
would the speed befit of Super Sonic, make up for the time you have to spend in the special stages?
Not even close. The old wip 100% video at the start of the thread gets to the start of the second zone at a little over 16 minutes. At that time in the current any% (which it itself is out of date) Sonic is pretty much on the final bosses, and of those three fights, two bosses have Super Sonic unavailable and the other one would not be helped by Super Sonic.
But that some what leads on to...
DDRKhat wrote:
Sorry Ajavalo I fail to see your concern, could you try re-explaining it?
I do not believe he has a 'concern'. I believe he is agreeing with you on your choice to get all the emeralds as soon as possible, so you can show off Super Sonic on as much of the game as you can. Also that the (massive) time loss in Emerald Hill, will be worth it to see what Super Sonic can do from Chemical Plant to the End of the game.
I am curious to see what the time difference form Chemical Plant 1 to Death Egg, for any% vs 100% will be though.
Basically what Paused said. Also, after having all Chaos emeralds, I think losing a few frames in order to collect 50 Rings and transform would be worth it, to show Super a bit more.
Unless TASvideos standards force you to finish the levels as fast as possible, but that would be a pity!
Antes de una TAS:
-Malo: ¡Voy a conquistar el mundo!
-Héroe: ¡Por poco tiempo!
