I find them both to be the same, as far as entertainment goes: when used in moderation, they make the run more entertaining. But if you use them every single level, don't expect me to finish watching.
I think i'm fine with the yoshi wings stuff. What kills me is that backtrack for the Chuck too, but if you can use a Chuck in the current level you are without having to go to another stage to get it, i think it's fine. Or there'll be too much overworld map in the run, imo.
I'd still like to see a run completing every stage how they're suposed to be, but if the run is going to use gliches anyway, i'd be in favour of not backtracking just to get goal spheres and get them only in stages where they can be acquired. It seems the Yoshi wings glitch can not be used in all stages too.
Joined: 10/30/2011
Posts: 146
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
I want to see a fast run, I don't care if there's backtrack involved, one of the points of this run is to beat the current one and reach the goal with all possible means (aside from simply writing the desired value to the exit counter, although I'd like to see a glitched 96 exit TAS using this method). They even said that the goal sphere approach will only work in some stages, even less than they were thinking in the beginning so what's the matter? It's not like if the whole run would be traveling through the same places again and again getting a goal sphere until they get 96 exits.
I think if one of the goals is "minimize overworld time" since we can all agree the overworld is boring (it lacks physics, glitches, speed, and other things that contribute to entertainment), that should eliminate backtracking. The end result would probably be the same as the goal "one level entry per exit." Either way, it looks like lack of death abuse becomes a consequence. but I don't remember any deaths in the previous 100% so I'm fine with that.
Backtracking for the sake of faster total completion time, to me, sounds as dumb and about as entertaining as a sonic run where bonus effects are not ignored so he will intentionally not cross the end-sign-post until a time bonus won't slow down the score tally. I know that someone made that sonic run and it was poorly received. I'd hate for you guys to make such a long run only for people to hate on it just because you were going "all out".
TLDR: Seeing time spent doing levels "slower" replaced with time spent going around the overworld and repeatedly performing the same actions in an abusable level will make a run far less entertaining to me. I don't care if the worst offence is the special levels. The last 4 levels in the wip were not very fun... that's already 5% of the exits!!
I'd be in favour of using Yoshi's wings in every level possible, because as it was mention, you can only use that in the level you're currently in.
About the Chuck/Goal Sphere glitch I also would like to see it in the run but with the restriction of every goal sphere using only once. Meaning that if you can have a goal sphere and Yoshi's Wings in the same level I wouldn't mind you getting the wings first to clear the level and backtrack one time to get the goal sphere. But not backtracking 2/3/4 times. It's extremely boring to watch.
For the stun glitch I don't really understand how it works so I cannot really pronounce myself, but from ISM's demo it seems entertaining enough to keep it IMO.
I say all Chuck/Goal Sphere glitches that can be managed while avoiding as much backtracking as possible -- maybe using a restriction that only allows entering a level to take new exits. I suppose this would be equivalent to disallowing Start + Select and death abuse (as these are not exits -- not as far as the game is concerned), but it seems more palatable.
Joined: 10/30/2011
Posts: 146
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
If I remember right, the goal sphere glitch is not something they'd be able to abuse dozens of times by back-tracking to the same level over and over because each time you use it the distance from the level where you'll actually use the sphere is bigger since you'll have to walk past the other levels on the overworld, so I think it'll be no big deal, I can even mention the fact that they said the number of levels where it would save time is less than they initially thought (It seems that people are forgetting this) I'll take a look at the past responses to find a post that confirms my points.
If I remember right, the goal sphere glitch is not something they'd be able to abuse dozens of times by back-tracking to the same level over and over because each time you use it the distance from the level where you'll actually use the sphere is bigger since you'll have to walk past the other levels on the overworld, so I think it'll be no big deal, I can even mention the fact that they said the number of levels where it would save time is less than they initially thought (It seems that people are forgetting this) I'll take a look at the past responses to find a post that confirms my points.
The glitch can only be done in levels where there is a jumping chuck, which I remember is not very many. I may be wrong, but not many can be backtracked over and over to save time.. The most useful is probably "Tubular", because of the very early jumping chuck in the level where the glitch can be executed quickly. So you are right!
but would anyone be against getting the goal sphere again from YI1 again since they would be right there anyway?
I would. Redoing a level for the goal sphere isn't very entertaining, in my opinion.
I see what you're saying and I don't necessarily disagree, but think about certain levels (i.e. DP1) where the normal and secret exit are both at the very end of the level, so you're essentially doing those levels twice as well.
this is simply food for thought, and whatever the ultimate decision is I will support as it is of course up to the TASers to decide
Joined: 3/21/2011
Posts: 127
Location: Virginia (United States)
gbreeze wrote:
The most useful is probably "Tubular", because of the very early jumping chuck in the level where the glitch can be executed quickly.
This is true, as shown by bahamete's testrun of the special world. However, backtracking to Tubular over and over to skip through the special world greatly kills the entertainment of it, as would mining the chuck glitch around any level that has a chuck. Although I'm fine with using the Chuck glitch, I don't think we should visit a level more times than necessary.
YouTube Channel - Twitter
Current projects: Sutte Hakkun, Hyper VI, RTDL, own hacking projects
Joined: 10/30/2011
Posts: 146
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
I'm in for getting less entertainment for the sake of speed, I watched so many "boring"(not even close to what this run can be when it comes to enterteainment) TASes here where the guy passes the whole video doing always the same thing over and over to get through the stages and the only fun parts are when he does something unexpected, and still liked it and respected it a lot because the guy had beaten the damn time of another TAS! So many people don't like the 007 Goldeneye TAS because bond is facing the floor most of the time but I enjoyed it a lot! Don't get me wrong guys, I like to see fancy things too, and I know this site is not just about being the fastest but making this kind of restrictions isn't a smart thing. Why don't you guys who'll be making the run make some brief calculations and give us an average number of levels that could be skipped using this glitch, without losing any time of course.
[...] give us an average number of levels that could be skipped using this glitch, without losing any time of course.
To add to the request of Brian_pso (as I see it, anyway), I would like a full list of the believed fastest methods to beat all 96 levels. As suggestions for a summary of each method, how about "usual", "chuck/goal sphere (YI1)", "chuck/key", "Yoshi Wings (block duplication)", "stun glitch", etc.
No need to limit yourselves to my suggestions. They are, after all, suggestions.
Though, it would take some time to type up, this might also help you organize a bit. Even if not, it would help us see what to expect.
Joined: 10/30/2011
Posts: 146
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Thanks a lot man, this will make things a whole lot easier, because most of us are making our opinions based on speculations about how much will any of these new glitches affect the course of the run. Numbers can surely help.
Not the kind of numbers you were expecting but here are all the feelings of the different posters that explicitly gave their opinion since this debate started, to get an idea about what the the public would like from this TAS:
How should the | TASers| as fast | one level| backtrack | hold back
new SMW 100% run | know | as | entry per| with | on the
be TASed? | best | possible| exit | moderation| glitches
_______________________________________________________________________
Brian_pso | | x | | |
kaizoman666 | | | x | |
DJWebb32 | x | | | |
gbreeze | x | | | |
marzojr | | | x | |
Lil_Gecko | | | | x |
bkDJ | | | x | |
Eye Of The Beholder| | | x | |
rog | | | | x |
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin| | | | x |
DarkMoon | | | x | |
JXQ | | x | | |
snorlax | | | x | |
carl sagan | | | x | |
boct1584 | | | x | |
Cool Kirby | | x | | |
Bobo the King | | | | | x
braindx | | x | | |
hegyak | | x | | |
jlun2 | | x | | |
Saethori | | | | | x
HappyLee | | | | | x
lxx4xNx6xxl | | | x | |
Personman | | | x | |
AngerFist | | | | | x
_______________________________________________________________________
TOTALS | 2 | 6 | 10 | 3 | 4 | 25
| 8% | 25% | 40% | 12% | 16% | 100%
(apologies in advance if I misinterpreted anyone's post)
I'll agree with bkDJ's "Minimize overworld time" goal, which would leave you the option to occasionally get an extra goal sphere from a level you already cleared, like (as mentioned) when you warp back to Yoshi's Island after clearing the Special Zone.
I'm only posting here because me, mro and gbreeze started a 96-exits some time ago (before they started).
We're not using Chuck Eat glitch, Stun Sprite glitch but we're using the yoshi's coin to get a yoshi's wing exit.
We're doing pretty much using ISM's strategies for the levels. Except for YI2, and funky will be a HUGE problem.
Only concern is that we ware making progress, then I decided to re-do YI2, YI3, Iggy's Castle, Donut Secret and Green Palace because they could be a little faster. And with that, mro is getting tired of TASing.
I'm gonna post a WIP tonight, but expect changes on YI2, YI3, Iggy's Castle, Donut Secret and Green Palace, because, like I said, we're redoing them.
EDIT:
Link to video
sorry my bad english...
- Finished projects:
Super Demo World any% - SMW Hack
- Dropped projecs:
Super Demo World All Exits - SMW Hack
Super Mario World All Exits
Joined: 12/28/2007
Posts: 235
Location: Japan, Sapporo
dnnzao wrote:
I'm only posting here because me, mro and gbreeze started a 96-exits some time ago (before they started).
We're not using Chuck Eat glitch, Stun Sprite glitch but we're using the yoshi's coin to get a yoshi's wing exit.
We're doing pretty much using ISM's strategies for the levels. Except for YI2, and funky will be a HUGE problem.
Only concern is that we ware making progress, then I decided to re-do YI2, YI3, Iggy's Castle, Donut Secret and Green Palace because they could be a little faster. And with that, mro is getting tired of TASing.
I'm gonna post a WIP tonight, but expect changes on YI2, YI3, Iggy's Castle, Donut Secret and Green Palace, because, like I said, we're redoing them.
Nice work dnnzao. Why did you guys do dp1b and ds1b first? That backtracking from dsh to dp1 looks superfluous, because they can be done with smaller amount of backtracking on the second path following special world.
Retired because of that deletion event.
Projects (WIP RIP): VIP3 all-exits "almost capeless yoshiless", VIP2 all-exits, TSRP2 "normal run"
Nice work dnnzao. Why did you guys do dp1b and ds1b first? That backtracking from dsh to dp1 looks superfluous, because they can be done with smaller amount of backtracking on the second path following special world.
Well, the sp1b is faster without cape, just like ds1b, but ds1a (I assume "a" is normal exit) is faster with the yoshi (we can do a yoshi's wing exit on the key) and the other level that you go on the pipe of Donut Secrets (the one located on Valley of Bowser) you can item swap with yoshi, so we sacrifice some time on yellow palace and on yoshi's island 1, but will save more time on ds1a.
My only problem is to know if I should keep the yoshi after this level that I can item swap on (because one level on vanilla dome can be done with a not so difficult duplication to get a yoshi's wing exit.
Sorry if I couldn't explain better, but I don't know the name of this level I'm telling you, and I was in a hurry when doing this :3
sorry my bad english...
- Finished projects:
Super Demo World any% - SMW Hack
- Dropped projecs:
Super Demo World All Exits - SMW Hack
Super Mario World All Exits
Here is my wip for the SDW 120-exit run.
In this video I compared my run with Pangas wip
Part 1Part 2
The most frames were saved with 3 new breaks, like 40 frames were saved with cornerclips or lag manipulation.
Here is my wip for the SDW 120-exit run.
In this video I compared my run with Pangas wip
Part 1Part 2
The most frames were saved with 3 new breaks, like 40 frames were saved with cornerclips or lag manipulation.
Absolutely incredible! I can hardly wait for the finished product!
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Just another random gamer
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<OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
