RachelB
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Slowking wrote:
rog wrote:
I meant that 99% of the time when it syncs while playing back from a save state with read only, it'll sync when played from the start.
Yeah and I really doubt that's the case with TWW.
Perhaps, but it's still not that hard to just let it playback overnight.
Joined: 12/6/2008
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If a spot is specifically desynch prone you might have to replay from the start a lot. Ofcourse I don't know if there will be such a spot, but history shows us there will be in a 3D zelda. :D Regardless of that stuff. Does Dolphin have GBA link by now? Because without it, this probably isn't happening either.
RachelB
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Slowking wrote:
Regardless of that stuff. Does Dolphin have GBA link by now? Because without it, this probably isn't happening either.
It has for quite some time now, but it doesn't seem to work with WW.
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Slowking wrote:
rog wrote:
Slowking wrote:
Yeah because you can totally tell if something syncs from a savestate.
99% of the time, you can. But yes, you're right, it is necessary to play back from the start every so often. However, it's easy enough to just let it run over night.
It does sync 99% of the time with TWW of a savestate? Kind of doubt that, but okay...
I believe you misconstrued what you are quoting. The 99% figure is referencing whether you can determine if it synced or not, not its actual sync rate. Back to the topic at hand, anyways, the (apparent) inability to skip the Hyrule barrier is somewhat unfortunate, but there's always the possibility of finding new glitches. There isn't much reason to just throw one's hands in the air and give up on a game just because a theory turns out not to be valid.
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats. Yay, favoritism.
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CoolKirby wrote:
and read-only mode is fixed so you don't have to play a 2+ hour movie from the beginning every time you want to check for desyncs.
I thought this was the only reliable way to ever check any movie for desynchs, regardless of which platform it's on.
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RachelB
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Comicalflop wrote:
CoolKirby wrote:
and read-only mode is fixed so you don't have to play a 2+ hour movie from the beginning every time you want to check for desyncs.
I thought this was the only reliable way to ever check any movie for desynchs, regardless of which platform it's on.
Depends on how reliably you really need to check it. Playing it back from the start every 5 seconds of gameplay is one thing when you can play it back at 1000+ fps, but it's an entirely different thing when you can only play back at 20-30 fps. In the last month, i've synced around 500k frames with dolphin, and i've had 2 desyncs that did not occur while playing it back with read only. Personally, i'd consider that rare enough that it's never worth the time to stop working and test it from the start. Of course it stills needs to be checked every so often though, but not nearly as often as you would check it with read only (which i usually do every 5-10 seconds).
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Comicalflop wrote:
CoolKirby wrote:
and read-only mode is fixed so you don't have to play a 2+ hour movie from the beginning every time you want to check for desyncs.
I thought this was the only reliable way to ever check any movie for desynchs, regardless of which platform it's on.
Yeah it is and that goes for 3D platforms especially. Apperently some people don't believe that, but I'm tired of arguing.
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You're not arguing. You're just saying stuff without proof and want everybody who says something different to test it themself. You're just talking down anybody who shows interests in this topic and you're definetly not contributing to the discussion.
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If you don't watch the movie from its entirety right from the very beginning, without loading any savestates or using fast-forward turbo, how are you going to know 100% for certain that it synchs 100% perfectly without using savestates and fast-forward turbo? Obviously there's some games that are incredibly synch stable and you don't bother to check, but you just never know. Donkey Kong Country 2 is insanely synch stable, but in the years that I've TASed it I've had 2 desynchs in total over 4ish runs, and if I hadn't bothered to watch my run from the very beginning occasionally, I wouldn't have noticed it.
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RachelB
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Comicalflop wrote:
If you don't watch the movie from its entirety right from the very beginning, without loading any savestates or using fast-forward turbo, how are you going to know 100% for certain that it synchs 100% perfectly without using savestates and fast-forward turbo?
You don't. The only question is how often you check it.
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Yeah but you guys claim you can be 99% sure when you check from a state and that is just silly. I have seen a lot of desynchs with OoT from states, even though the movies synced from the beginning and movies that seemed to sync fom states, but didn't from the beginning. Now granted mupen is not the best emulator, but it works really well with OoT in general. I seriously doubt that Dolphin works better with TWW at this stage. Actually I doubt any 3D action game will ever get near those 99%.
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Newer dolphins seem to have introduced a glitch that deletes input from the DTM at random, as Wak told me. So even if read-only mode works perfectly fine (I don't trust its stability yet) your work might be lost during the making of the TAS.
RachelB
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If you mean what i think you might mean, that was fixed a while ago. Unless you don't, in which case i've never seen such a thing happen as of 3.0-305 more-save-fixes. Also, since the save state fixes in the aforementioned version, i actually have not gotten a single desync, in some 70k frames.
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I tried to do the super swim, but I never manage to go very far... I just try to go down/up every frame, but that doesn't sent me very far... Is there some kind of RAM watch on Dolphin, that would be usefull to know the speed of Link in this case.
RachelB
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You need to do it for a least a few hundred frames to get anywhere near a decent speed. Have fun with it, without lua support~
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rog wrote:
If you mean what i think you might mean, that was fixed a while ago. Unless you don't, in which case i've never seen such a thing happen as of 3.0-305 more-save-fixes. Also, since the save state fixes in the aforementioned version, i actually have not gotten a single desync, in some 70k frames.
I have never gotten this "deleted input" bug and I also have never had a desync on the Dolphin rog is using. With Dolphin 3.0-191, I had about 4-5 desyncs in about 27k frames of my TAS, and in 3.0-305 "more-save-fixes", I have not had one desync. I can even play back my movie from any savestate (from the same movie) and it will sync perfectly.
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rog wrote:
You need to do it for a least a few hundred frames to get anywhere near a decent speed. Have fun with it, without lua support~
I already did that, i actually tried to do the same as in this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTBOU_zBdLU , but it seems that i have do to something else to go that fast... EDIT : Oh ! I made it...
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I made a glitch compilation from my TAS testing a while ago, the quality isn't great, but it gets the point across. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMhFCZvfkPk If you get a superswim going, you can swim near land to refill air without losing speed and go back to speeding up. This is how the final video clip occurs. The early route is something like this. It is very rough, and may have blatant errors. 1: Jump off watchtower. 2: Superswim glitch into Forest of Fairies to trigger cutscene so game doesn't crash later. 2: Grab 100 rupee chest under grandma's house (This takes about 55 seconds, there may be a more optimal way to get 80 rupees through manipulation.) 3: Superswim to Windfall (buy sail (80) (The sail is needed before FF1, or you get caught in a text lock. The text lock may be avoidable with perfect input that I wasn't able to do.) (Let Tingle Out (1)) 4: Superswim to Greatfish to trigger endless night (required to get bombs) 5: Superswim to Northern Fairy Isle (Get Rupee Upgrade 1000) 6: Enter nearby sub, Lantern Moblin + No Sword sends you to Forsaken Fortress 1 7: Trigger Tetra text at bottom of FF1 by stairs. Beat Forsaken Fortress 1 (FF1) (You get a sword here) 8: At Windfall, Get Bombs (Let Tingle Out (2)) 9: Superswim to Dragon Roost, get wind waker, get wind requiem 10: Superswim to Bomb Island, get bottle 11: Superswim to Forest Haven, get FOREST WATER (20 min), zombie hover deku leaf 12: DRC deku leaf entry, deku leaf bomb drop the pot, get grapple, clear dungeon 13: Superswim to Bird's Peak Rock, grapple glitch to get triforce chart 14: Rupee collection etc, is forest water BK skip good? 15: FOREST WATER Boss Key skip (20 min later) In my testing, doing 11-15 with no rupees took about 14 minutes of game time, decently optimized. 16: Place pearls, Jabun, get Rupee upgrade in Forest of Fairies assuming game crash has been mitigated. 17: Tower of the Gods (big skip at beginning) 18: Forsaken Fortress 2 (FF2) (Helmrock superswim, zombie hover past boss fight to loading zone. (You get a shield now if i recall, but still have starting clothes, lol) There is a softlock with the master sword if you don't go through the first instance of Hyrule, which is triggered by Tower of the Gods. I think this means that Tower of the Gods must be done before FF2 It may be faster to just just the forest water boss key skip and do the dungeon normally. It's hard to work forest water into the run because you have pick it up exactly 20 minutes before you want to use it. Certain places like Forest Haven, you can't re-air while superswimming, so do a short superswim to a nearby island (e.g. Bomb Island) and then without stopping, get air and start speeding up again. Also, old but good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Xr2JBWbUo EDIT: This testing was all done in summer of 2011. I captured the videos yesterday from savestates I backed up. EDIT2: Random Discussion You need a sail to open triforce charts. You have to open triforce charts for that triforce piece to be acquirable. The position is assigned upon opening the chart. The crash in forest of fairies is likely because it tries to load two cutscenes at once; tetra is hanging from the tree and two guys are trying to lift the rock you have to bomb. I'm convinced the only traditional way around this is to watch a certain cutscene early on in the forest. I'm not sure if you have to get tetra down from the tree or not. (Correction:) due to not watching many early game cutscenes. You can kill the enemies in there by having them damage each other or have them take fall damage. The sail softlock: After FF1 I think, the boat engages you in repeated conversation telling you to get a sail. Supposedly if you sidehop or roll or something instantaneously, you can get away. I was never able to accomplish this, hence I got the sail first (This loses maybe a minute at most.) This needs more testing.
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Nice compilation Kirk. One very important question, why are you using that old version of dolphin and not the "more-save-fixes" version? Edit: Would love to see you tas this game Kirk. I pmed Grunz about it but I think he is busy with other stuff.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
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Is it now possible to use tingle tuner on dolphin? A TAS without it would be really pointless in my opinion, we should just wait until someone fixes dolphin, so we can do all the BK Skips. That video and the route made me really interested in the game now, though. Super Swim seems to be as mighty as BLJ in SM64 and there sure are more tricks left to discover using it. I actually told myself to never do any long TASes anymore after finishing Majora's Mask, though, because the time it takes to do such long runs simply doesn't seem to be worth it, at least to me. So a full game TAS of mine is very unlikely. One thing I will definitely do is starting some glitch hunting once I figure out how to properly use dolphin.
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we need a barrier skip first...
RachelB
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MrGrunz wrote:
Is it now possible to use tingle tuner on dolphin?
No.
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http://wiki.dolphin-emulator.com/index.php?title=The_Legend_of_Zelda:_The_Wind_Waker
GBA Link is partially emulated since r6059 and requires a dump of GBA BIOS and VBA-M with joy bus options to work.
I seem to remember VBA-M working some time ago, so I'm sure it may work properly now with the Tingle Tuner. Rather than going 'no', might be time to start testing if it does (and perhaps bug evaluating, if it doesn't).
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I am seriously considering taking this game up if the tuner does work. Even if it doesn't (and we get a definitive answer from the devs that it won't anytime soon), I'll probably still do one without it. I think the game has a lot of potential.
RachelB
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I tested it recently, and it did not work at all. It can detect the gba, but it always times out, while vba runs at <1 fps.