Here is one spot where you can break the two first blocks behind the gravity chozo statue. I used the charged beam for this.
Edit: Also, one wrap around in a left door that could be usefull is in WS, in the left Super Missile Pack room, so you could open the door offscreen from kinda next to the bottom door, a little to the right of it, and mockball full speed through the door to the next room.
Joined: 11/26/2010
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The question is has the Wrap Around ever be done on the left side? I don't think its possible but, if it is possible it would probably require a certain run speed or something like that. I would hope its possible because it could open up some interesting strategies.
Edit: Also is possible to Wrap Around Glitch the door in the room where you grab the Energy Tank above the Ship? I'm sure that would save a few frames.
Joined: 11/14/2005
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Location: United States
Indeed it probably would save some frames. we should add that to the list of spots that need testing.
As for doing the left sided wrap shots, here are some rooms that may benefit:
1. the door on the right side of WS leading to the missile pack right after killing phantoon.
2. the pink dachora room. (can do a full 2 room shinespark if that door was opened)
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As far as the Gravity Suit area is concerned it would probably save frames Real Time wise, but definitely not In-Game. I prefer In-Game over Real Time any day!!!
Also would it be faster if possible to drop a Power Bomb right away then as you break the block shoot and morph through? Hopefully Samus will have enough time to catch that beam. Wave could definitely be beneficial because of that. Actually while the Power Bomb is exploding can you shoot and Mockball in that hole? Because if you can you should definitely be able to catch your beam to break some of the blocks.
Another room that could save time with a wrap around in the left door is the room right after Ridley's room. So you could travel with the Shinespark through the two rooms and would only stop in the door leading to the Pirates. Of course that it would only be possible if Shinespark lasts till the wrap around anyway.
Edit: I saw some videos in youtube some time ago showing people glitching through grey doors mainly in Torian. Does anyone know anything about it? Is there a safe way to glitch through grey doors?
Joined: 11/26/2010
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Can you find that video Reeve? Because I never heard of anything like that before.
Did anyone test if a Wrap Around Glitch is possible above the ship in the ET Room?
Also nobody ever answered me before but, has a Wrap Around on a left door been demonstrated before? My guess is no but, I could be wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong. If it is possible I wonder what special conditions would have to be met in order to do it?
Can you find that video Reeve? Because I never heard of anything like that before.
I couldn't find it yet, but i saw it first on youtube, then when i mentioned it on m2k2 (don't remember in which thread) somebody found another video with other grey doors beeing openned. The problem is, i think it's needed the VAR beam for it to work or something like that, so it wouldn't be useful in a new 100% run.
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Did anyone test if a Wrap Around Glitch is possible above the ship in the ET Room?
I didn't.
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Also nobody ever answered me before but, has a Wrap Around on a left door been demonstrated before? My guess is no but, I could be wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong. If it is possible I wonder what special conditions would have to be met in order to do it?
I never saw such a thing before, i just brought that quote from Games Resources page cause i found it interesting.
Btw, I had an idea that could "maybe" be faster for that gravity statue room, after the chozo releases Samus, mainly if you guys plan using that shot to destroy the blocks on the right. The mechanics of the idea work very well, i just don't know if it's faster or not.
After the chozo releases Samus, quickly unmorph and open the door in the left and quickly turn around before reaching the crumble block. Jump as soon as Samus touches the crumble block to do the kago trick on the Statue. After the kago, land a bomb in the very ledge of the breakeable block on the ground, so Samus will still be inside the statue. Then quickly unmorph, run to the right to shoot the blocks and return to the small passage.
Edit: lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Did anyone test if a Wrap Around Glitch is possible above the ship in the ET Room?
Wait... do you mean... to enter the Energy Tank room??? Well, if it is, that door is a pinky door and wrap around doesn't work.
Also, did anyone test that strategy for the lighters bugs with the Energy Tank, the one to damage boost from one of the lighters to get to the E.T. platform?
Edit 2: Here is the wrap around shot for Attic room.
Joined: 11/26/2010
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Location: New York, US
Reeve you are the fucking man!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is a optimized, but could be more optimized version of what this room should look like. I did this in real time. I got the Wrap Around 3 times but, I accidentally re-record over the first 2 I got. It was a pain in the ass and unfortunately way to hard to do for console. Its fucking incredible for TAS conditions though, Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/517593775/WS%20Attic%20Wrap%20Around%20%28Not%20Optimized%29.smv
Edit: I don't think there is a way to hit that door with out charge beam but, I could be wrong. Also it will be very difficult to find one with just the Charged Wave Beam. A regular Spazer/Wave shot will be hard enough to find if possible but, the Wave alone will be a Nightmare to find. Again this if its even possible for a normal shot to hit that door.
Joined: 4/21/2004
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I just wanted to briefly say how wonderful it is that you guys are throwing out interesting and good ideas. Keep it up and hopefully, we'll soon see a new 100% run from these crazy beasts!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Sorry about that, work was taking up my day before I could get home to do any gaming.
The wrap around in the attic: I just tested this out again. The only way I've got it so far is from an upward wave-spazer charged shot while running with dash held. I start the run from the pillar on the ground on the left and run full speed and release the beam just at the foot of the staircase. So like I say it's looks detrimental to the run if it can only be done this way. I tried a downward shot standing closer to the door which would be a lot better but haven't had any luck just yet.
Also about the version differences for wrap arounds. I'm certain there is an actual difference in shot positions for nearly each and every wrap around between NTSC and PAL. The difference is slight though. My wrap around for the gauntlet entry can be done from that spot I did in my run where as NTSC it can't. you have to go a little further up the slope to do it in the same way, but it just happens to be even more picky and isn't worth bothering with. That's why forensic ops for the original and fastest strategy to do the jump method. Which also works for PAL but I'd rather do my safe guaranteed method.
The one in blue brinstar for another example. There is some half a block difference in the standing position for the shot to connect.
edit: lol it appears Reeve ninja'd me anyway
and holy shit forensic I misunderstood the application of this wrap around until I saw your smv. i thought it was going to be some trick coming out of the robot room and doing whatever the fuck. But I didn't even think of the smv idea. I probably wouldn't try that on console though because this wrap around is a bit troublesome but for a TAS could that save a second or so?. Shoot last enemy and head back instead of having to shoot the blinking door normally.
edit2: That speed keeping trick in the attic forensic. I remember you saying it's a more difficult trick in general on PAL. I managed just once while practicing here and trying to make it consistent. I'd love to try this in a run though one day if I could find a way to do it most of the time.
I think this wrap around is meant to be used for the grapple beam exit that hero posted before. Of course it really seems it can be used to save time by shooting the last enemies from far distance, but i recal hero saying that the exit door would have to be openned for the grapple boost trick to work too.
lol ok, all this stuff confuses me now, been out of this for a while.
I see the bomb drop before you unmorph forensic. It seems to make the trick work doesn't it. Very weird. Damn this is cool !
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
The purpose of the WS attic wrap around shot is as follows:
The attic doors will not open until all the enemies in the room are cleared. In the current run by CP, he clears the room both times when (when he exits to the right and later when he exits to the left). The reason he clears the room twice instead of once is because he would need to open the grey door on the left the first time he cleared the room. This would require many seconds of backtracking. Using a wrap around shot allows both the doors to be opened in a single clearing, without any backtracking at all. When finally exiting the WS, the door will be open-able without having to clear all the enemies again. It should save time and a shitload of ammunition at the same time.
Joined: 11/26/2010
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It would be nice if someone can find a way without Spazer or without Charge Beam. Even better if they can do it with out both but, unfortunately its probably not possible at least not without the Charge Beam.
Honestly Wrap Around shots are weird without the Charge Beam. I don't fully understand how they work. Especially with only Wave Beam. I'm sure speed as well as the distance or the height from which you shoot the beam will likely be a key factor in certain Wrap Around Glitches being possible or not.
Edit: I finally found out how to do this on NTSC. I'm not sure if this is known or not because I just found this out now. For some reason when your running in water if you let go of run you jump higher out of the water. Also I could be wrong but, I also think Samus is running faster. Whats nice about this is you don't even need the Wave Beam. So if early Wave proves to be slower which I somehow doubt, this strategy could be used in its place. That is if its faster then Cpadolf's original way which it probably isn't. It was still cool to know it was possible though.
This .smv was done on the SNES9x v1.53.
WS before the E-Tank
I've been thinking, and i know you guys too, that wave beam and charge beam have to be taken into account not only in room crossing, but for refill too. The wave beam makes much easier to refil Samus' ammunition and getting some suppers before fighting GT will make his fight much faster, not only because you will have a more powerfull beam with the addition of Wave Beam and that will probably save time on GT too and also, not having to refill the supers on his fight or at least having to refill less supers will save some time too. I Think some planning could be made to try and get as much supers as possible before GT and maybe there wouldn't have the need to delay his death.
The Wrap Around shot in WS attic room is a good example, as hero said, a lot of ammo is saved there if you don't have to clean it twice and using the wrap around is still faster. Cp used 6 supers in that room, 2 in the first time and 4 in the second, it seemed to me that most of them can be avoided with the wrap around. Also, landing a power bomb as done in the any% run can make some supers drops apear, so it would still help Samus in this.
It seems to me that some other drops can be collected in pink Brinstar too.
Joined: 11/26/2010
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Location: New York, US
I honestly think early Wave will prove to be faster given the amount of uses it has. Especially for ammo conservation. Wrap Around Glitches will definitely save sometime in areas and Bosses can definitely be taken care of much quicker.
Some questions arise with the possible route change. Will early Charge Beam prove faster? For instance will Spazer be delayed or grabbed normally on route? Is there going to be any Start Menus to save In-Game Time?
I actually prefer that Start Menus be used if it can save at least 2.5 seconds of In-Game Time. That's just my opinion though.
For instance will Spazer be delayed or grabbed normally on route?
Delaying Spazer is faster due to the use of Hi-Jump Boots and Speed Booster, but i don't know how much it would save. If less than half second and if that wrap around in WS prove to be faster than that and only possible with Spazer, it would justify an earlier spazer.
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Is there going to be any Start Menus to save In-Game Time?
It will, for performing the Stand-up glitch in Mother Brain. I don't remember any other place that a pause menu is needed. It would if you had to disable something like ice for example, but as it's not going to be collected earlier...
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Eye Of The Beholder wrote:
It will, for performing the Stand-up glitch in Mother Brain. I don't remember any other place that a pause menu is needed. It would if you had to disable something like ice for example, but as it's not going to be collected earlier...
I was thinking Power Wave Combos if Spazer isn't delayed and stuff like that but, yea there's probably no need for Start Menus.
BTW its amazing how many optimizations were found since Hero sparked up the topic of 100%. There's been some really incredible stuff posted so far I hope it keeps this pace up!!!!!!!
BTW its amazing how many optimizations were found since Hero sparked up the topic of 100%. There's been some really incredible stuff posted so far I hope it keeps this pace up!!!!!!!
Yeah, lots of cool stuffs have been found lately. But now i feel that i can't help anymore. I can't think of anything helpfull now.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Yeah, lots of new discoveries thanks to you guys.
Have either of you considered tasing for real? It's not that hard to get into. Just looking at the input from the existing runs is all you need to sharpen your skills. The more tasers, the better!
I thought about it a lot and i'd really like to TAS at least some games. I even watched some tutorial videos made by adelikat, but it didn't help. I think it's due to the fact i'm not into tecnical languages and programing stuffs, for example. Also, i know SM is one of the hardest games to TAS (if not the hardest). Looking into the inputs really help and i understand somethings that are happenning, but that memory stuffs and why somethings happens, etc... these kind of things drives me nuts!
I'm too young to get crazy!
Anyway, i think you guys are doing a great job and maybe there's not much to improve after the new 100% run. Soon we'll reach the time where there'll be at most 5 seconds or less to improve in runs for this game and that would be too much work...
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
I hope the new 100% run will be the last one needed :)
Anyway, I did some quick tests for the alternate maridia route after getting the main-street missile pack. Surprisingly, it may actually be about 10-15 frames faster to take the upper route. Take a look at my demo runs. They are both improvable, but the general ideas are the same. The upper route actually seems to be much more entertaining too. It involves a mockball into the super missile tunnel and a cool damage boost off the wallcrawler. Though this route may save up to 15 frames, it does cost a super missile :/ the same route without the damage boost (using a morph/demorph) is slower than the traditional route.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1087963906/maridia_route-test_number%201.smvhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1855008919/maridia_route-test_number2.smv
That's really nice. Have to say i liked more the upper route. So you said it is 15 frames faster, right? And it can be improvable?
Btw, you said you loose one super, is it for the crab??? If so, at that height of the run you'll have spazer and iirc one shot is enough to kill them. So what about start charging the beam when the Shinespark animation ends? Or you can walljump from the wall where the crab is to the left ledge...
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
The super is to shoot the wall, which drops the crab for the damage boost. The other times I use the super missiles in the demo are just to make it easier to record. In the real run, those would be shot with missiles/charged shots.
