Possibly a better example would be Chrono Trigger, where Inichi's save-corruption run obsoleted Hero of the Day's run. The reason was given that Hero's run was so old and unoptimized that it needed to be replaced,
This should be considered an aberration, and not policy, like OoT(J).
Saethori wrote:
but rather than allow it to be replaced on its own terms, it was knocked down by the glitched run, which actually served to deter anyone from making a true save-corruption-free run of Chrono Trigger.
I hope this is not actually true. There is plenty of space for a non-save-corruption CT! I'd like to think that the massive undertaking that is any RPG, coupled with Chrono Trigger's unmoving and unforgiving RPG is really why we haven't seen a new version.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
There are a lot of examples of different games that could be entertaining aimed for the fastest time or to be most entertaining, but I don't see any point in wasting frames just to make a run more entertaining. I think a lot of people probably use the speed/entertainment tradeoffs as an excuse for not knowing how to do a certain trick properly. I think if you don't know how to do a trick, just be honest with people and play without the trick instead of trading it off. That's just lame.
There are certain exceptions. Like in the previous Pokemon Sapphire run, the border is changed to another color just because it looked better. Or how about the Gradius run where frames where wasted just so more stunts could be done; in the submission text, the author even states that he knows it'll waste several hundred frames, but was worth it. =P
I hope this is not actually true. There is plenty of space for a non-save-corruption CT! I'd like to think that the massive undertaking that is any RPG, coupled with Chrono Trigger's unmoving and unforgiving RPG is really why we haven't seen a new version.
I cannot vouch personally on this, not knowing the TASer in question, but there was information that there was a TAS of Chrono Trigger in progress to obsolete Hero's run, but it was abandoned shortly after the glitch run showed up and obsoleted the run itself. It could simply be a coincidence, but given the timing...
...Either way, I make a point of not holding judges' decisions against them. I'm partaking in the recent glitch debates only as a simple viewer with her own opinions. (Regrettably, I cannot even manage the clout of a TASer, lacking the knowledge and skill to really get started. Though if there's an opening for a Chrono Trigger run...)
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats.
Yay, favoritism.
I think a lot of people probably use the speed/entertainment tradeoffs as an excuse for not knowing how to do a certain trick properly. I think if you don't know how to do a trick, just be honest with people and play without the trick instead of trading it off. That's just lame.
You're having such misconception because you're newbie to TASing.
For an experienced TASer those "tricks" you're talking about are trivial to do. While in real-time speedrunning people may physically lack skills needed to pull a trick, in TASing anyone can learn and reproduce any trick if they really want to.
That's why speed is not as entertaining in TAS as it is in RTS. Being fast is not a talent here, it's a routine. You don't have to be creative to make an optimized run.
In fact you don't need to be a human, you might as well be an advanced robot who has simple objective and plenty of time to achieve it.
The real value of TAS reveals when people create and discover new aspects of games. Now, THAT is hard to do. As for speed... it's only common practice, not an ultimate goal like in real-time speedruns.
Joined: 12/21/2011
Posts: 31
Location: The Magic Kingdom
AnS wrote:
Billy wrote:
I think a lot of people probably use the speed/entertainment tradeoffs as an excuse for not knowing how to do a certain trick properly. I think if you don't know how to do a trick, just be honest with people and play without the trick instead of trading it off. That's just lame.
You're having such misconception because you're newbie to TASing.
For an experienced TASer those "tricks" you're talking about are trivial to do. While in real-time speedrunning people may physically lack skills needed to pull a trick, in TASing anyone can learn and reproduce any trick if they really want to.
That's why speed is not as entertaining in TAS as it is in RTS. Being fast is not a talent here, it's a routine. You don't have to be creative to make an optimized run.
In fact you don't need to be a human, you might as well be an advanced robot who has simple objective and plenty of time to achieve it.
The real value of TAS reveals when people create and discover new aspects of games. Now, THAT is hard to do. As for speed... it's only common practice, not an ultimate goal like in real-time speedruns.
Yes, I'm working on a TAS! I made a TAS with the time "21:02.94", but I used VirtuaNES so I can't submit it here. I just submitted it on Speedruns Galore, who doesn't care what emulator you use, which is another argument I might put on a different topic.
Anyway, I'm making a TAS with an accepted emulator VBA 21, and I keep fixing parts that aren't FAST not caring if they are entertaining or not, and the AutoFire and AutoHold functions are doing most of the work for me, so it's pretty easy until you watch it and see you messed up on a part of the run, then you have to do it ALL OVER AGAIN! My goal is to become the fastest TASer in the world, and I'm no-where near that yet. I am not focusing on trading speed for entertainment.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Do you mean that you gonna do TASing fast, or you gonna get fast results, as in runs? Also, how would you realize you became "the fastest TASer in the world" if this happens? What are the criteria?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The sad thing is that the "fastest TASer" is really the best programmer. In strict terms, I'm referring to botting, but even in general, an expert TASer needs to know how to find useful information, process it, and display it on the screen efficiently with a Lua script. To truly master the art, you need to have a strong foundation in programming and have a good understanding of things like ROM architecture, data structures, and common programming habits that go into making a game.
I can honestly say that I think we're all impressed by your passion and dedication to TASing, Billy, but I will warn you now: you must bring a large bag of tools to the table, and if not, you must be willing and prepared to expand your skill set. Otherwise, you will almost certainly be disappointed. Undirected effort alone will do very little for your success.
