There are scoreattacks, timeattacks and tool-assisted speedruns...so why not tool-assisted scoreruns? In other words, using emulation tricks to achieve the highest score possible instead of the lowest time possible.
Of course, the number of games might be more limited. On the other hand, games that are unsuitable for speedruns might be just right for scoreruns.
Only score-keeping games that have a finite number of enemies (i.e. don't respawn) or with time limits (Super Mario Bros.) might be suitable. And in the case of games with long time limits (Sonic the Hedgehog), it might be tricky to keep up the viewers' interest as the player endeavours to stay in the current level as long as possible to milk it for all it's worth. Yet with the right games, tool-assisted scoreruns could be just as entertaining as tool-assited speedruns.
So...is this a good idea or not? And I apologize in advance if there is already a topic for this somewhere on this site.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
If you can think of a game that this type of run would be entertaining for, try making a proof of concept. I can't think of any runs that would be published under these criteria; most games would have the maximum score as the record. Even Super Mario Bros. would have this issue as you can gain infinite lives using the Koopa trick, then run through the same level over again by racking up points, committing suicide, and repeating. Still, who knows if it will get published? Even if they wouldn't get accepted, you can maintain a page archiving these movies and records just like I do for Minimum Buttons. If you feel strongly about this, go for it!
There's a WIP of a Sonic 1 tool-assisted score run out there somewhere. Generally the first two levels of each act were played for speed (for the 50k score bonus) and the last level, where that bonus was impossible due to the boss, would be much more leisurely. It was okay, I guess. The big score chains from bouncing off of enemies were definitely the highlight.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Maybe more shoot em ups should get a look in - stuff like Gradius already has a TAS, why not more games in that genre? For that matter, now that Windows TASing is a thing, the Touhou series would be something to watch for sure.
Personally, I'd like to see a high score TAS of Pop'n Twinbee for SNES. But that's just me.
Maybe a better criterion for comparing the runs would be to use score/time for each level? It would hopefully filter out most of the boring moments in those runs, except for games like Sonic 3* (and I'm sure there are many others). Just an idea. Maybe another guideline would have to be to avoid too much repetition?
*(Launch Base Zone)
If you can think of a game that this type of run would be entertaining for, try making a proof of concept. I can't think of any runs that would be published under these criteria; most games would have the maximum score as the record. Even Super Mario Bros. would have this issue as you can gain infinite lives using the Koopa trick, then run through the same level over again by racking up points, committing suicide, and repeating. Still, who knows if it will get published? Even if they wouldn't get accepted, you can maintain a page archiving these movies and records just like I do for Minimum Buttons. If you feel strongly about this, go for it!
Maybe an added criterion could be 'Doesn't abuse death/1-ups'.
Oh no, I'm just a lurker, I've got enough on my plate as is. I just mentioned this because the idea had been nagging at me worse than my mother.
Hmm... How would 'tool-assisted scorerun' be abbreviated?
PS: Is this the Sonic 1 high score TAS? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKskCK7sO4U
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Actually, a score attack in something like the Stunt Mode of Rush 2049 could be interesting.
Though a 100% completion of that game would be far more interesting to me, with all the gold coin collection, and you get to include the race and obstacle modes (seen below).
Link to video
I'm in favor of the idea of scoreruns. I feel the best way to keep them going, though, is to make it so scoreruns must also be reasonably fast; no 'loitering', it must keep the game progress going.
Of course the in-progress Star Fox 64 run would be a prime example, but the existing Tetris and Tetris Attack runs are reasonably similar, too, seeing as how their only point is reaching max score.
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats.
Yay, favoritism.
The score run I'd like to see competed/published is Nintendo World Championship, for the full 6:35 or whatever it is.
It would be interesting to see the TAS strategies that people come up with, and how much we can beat the current world record, as well as the 1991 record.
Oh, and if anyone has an extra $10,000 lying around, I will totally verify it too.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Oh, and if anyone has an extra $10,000 lying around, I will totally verify it too.
Is this possible?
Flygon wrote:
Yes. In fact, obtaining a cart with rewritable ROM chips would make the verification process go a lot faster, due to being able to use the precise same ROM used as was done with the TAS (preventing version difference issues).
I have a friend that can do this for the Mega Drive, but it requires a PC with a Parallel port. I'll inquire about NES games.
Edit: BTW, Nintendo World Championship is emulated improperly with the current versions of FCEUX. Sometimes, while recording, the game suddenly ends without reason. Same for playing back.
What's the difference between a "scorerun" and a TAS marked with "aims for maximum score"?
(What I mean with that question is: Why would we need a separate category since we already have such a category?)
The $10k presumably refers to the cost of buying one of the NWC carts. DarkKobold already has a TASBot for replaying TASes on the real hardware.
You could buy a reproduction cart for 50$ somewhere. :P
Edit: TOTALLY CENSORED!
Shhhhh.... I want someone to buy me a real copy of NWC for my collection.... >_<
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
I always wanted to see a Donkey Kong for arcade high score run. It's probably the most well-known and prestigious high score world record competition. I don't think there are any public videos of the top 10 high scores either, with the current world record having no video as it was verified by being done in public at a sanctioned arcade.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
It'd probably be interesting to see a bot destroy the world record for Pac-Man.
FYI, for the arcade version of Pac-Man, there is a maximum achievable score. Billy Mitchell, of King of Kong's fame, is the first person to ever reach this score. Unless the Bot figured out a way to beat the half-level, then the maximum score will stand.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
In other words, using emulation tricks to achieve the highest score possible instead of the lowest time possible.
This is a great idea! Someone should try that with Tetris.
By the way I know of at least three games that will overflow if you score too many points. One of them even has a TAS on this website, Epic Pinball Android, if you score more than 232-1 points (4294967295) it will roll back to 0.
I'm certain that the 3D Sonic games would be great choices for tool-assisted scorerunning; as the Balow brothers have often demonstrated, getting to the goal in the fastest time doesn't always mean they get the highest rank (thus, definitely not the highest score) possible. The question is, just how much do you waver from the beaten path in order to pick up a stray ring or destroy an enemy for points?
In Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy, the number of coins acquired for each course is used as the high score. Assuming that there are no enemies that give out an infinite number of coins and that no enemies will respawn, doing these games might be a good idea.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
I'm certain that the 3D Sonic games would be great choices for tool-assisted scorerunning; as the Balow brothers have often demonstrated, getting to the goal in the fastest time doesn't always mean they get the highest rank (thus, definitely not the highest score) possible. The question is, just how much do you waver from the beaten path in order to pick up a stray ring or destroy an enemy for points?
In Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy, the number of coins acquired for each course is used as the high score. Assuming that there are no enemies that give out an infinite number of coins and that no enemies will respawn, doing these games might be a good idea.
If I remember correctly, in Super Mario 64 there are enemies that respawn, but they don't give coins the second time. This means it's pretty likely that there's deliberately a finite high score in each level.
IIRC the Bowser levels in SM64 have unlimited coins because one of Bowser's attacks can generate coins. I certainly remember seeing a video of someone running the coin counter up to something absurd, anyway.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
