I'm not going to go into a big discussion about version comparisions -- some powers turned out better, some worse; some bosses were harder, some worse. The main reason I like the NES version best is the physics engine -- the controls feel too loose in the GBA (Kirby turns too fast, etc.). Still, I would like a GBA any% just so that UFO isn't abused the whole time.
Anyways, the point of this post:
Following is a damage guide I did for fun a little while ago. This is all tested/observed data, not hacked from the ROM. If you're curious, I can also post the corresponding NES version.
Sorry about the formatting -- it's meant for mono-spaced font.
=====================================
Damage Guide, Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland (GBA)
=====================================
Notes:
- As far as I know, only the Meta Knight Crew are vulnerable to air pellets,
dive attacks, or contact (simply touching kirby).
- The damage for Back Drop and contact-Throw refers to a boss touching Kirby
or his held object/victim. Once Kirby lets go, he becomes vulnerable again.
- For High Jump, "clouds" refers to the small clouds that appear to the sides
when Kirby jumps; "contact" refers to touching Kirby himself while hi-jumping.
- "Ice Block" (for Freeze and Ice) refers to knocking a frozen object into the
boss.
- The damage listed for Mike is for each individual hit.
- For Parasol, "contact" refers to anything that touches it while Kirby isn't
attacking with it.
- With the Star Rod, Kirby automatically performs "jump-spin" while jumping.
"Rod swing" refers to hitting the Nightmare Wizard with the Star Rod itself,
and not the shot star, when you press B.
Power | Damage (number & visual graph)
--------------+-----------------------------------
Normal | |
- contact | 2 | []
- air pellet | 2 | []
- dive attack | 2 | []
- water spout | 2 | []
- star shot | 10 | [][][][][]
- multi-star | 25 | [][][][][][][][][][][][][
| |
Back Drop | 12 | [][][][][][]
Ball | 16 | [][][][][][][][]
Beam | 4 | [][]
Burning | 5 | [][][
Crash | 28 | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
Cutter | 4 | [][]
Fire | 5 | [][][
Freeze | |
- shield | 5 | [][][
- ice block | 10 | [][][][][]
Hammer | 9 | [][][][][
Hi-jump | |
- contact | 10 | [][][][][]
- clouds | 6 | [][][]
Ice | |
- breath | 3 | [][
- ice block | 10 | [][][][][]
Laser | 3 | [][
Mike | 14 | [][][][][][][]
Needle | 8 | [][][][]
Parasol | |
- contact | 2 | []
- swing | 5 | [][][
Spark | 7 | [][][][
Star Rod | |
- jump-spin | 2 | []
- rod swing | 2 | []
- star shot | 10 | [][][][][]
Stone | 10 | [][][][][]
Sword | 6 | [][][]
Throw | |
- contact | 12 | [][][][][][]
- thrown star | 12 | [][][][][][]
Tornado | 4 | [][]
U.F.O. | |
- beam | 4 | [][]
- laser | 3 | [][
- beam | 10 | [][][][][]
- large beam | 18 | [][][][][][][][][]
Wheel | 4 | [][]
| |
Minibosses | HP
------------------+-----
Poppy Brother Sr. |
(blue, orange) | 24
(red) | 34
|
Mr. Frosty |
(pink, blue) | 22
(green) | 32
|
Wheelie |
(3-2, 5-5) | 35
(otherwise) | 25
|
Mr. Tick Tock |
(2-4) | 26
(otherwise) | 36
|
Bugzzy |
(arena) | 30
(otherwise) | 40
|
Bonkers |
(5-2, 6-3, arena)| 30
(otherwise) | 40
|
Phanphan |
(6-1) | 30
(otherwise) | 40
|
Fire Lion |
(brown) | 27
(purple, grey) | 37
|
Meta Knight Crew | HP
------------------+-----
Ax Knight | 6
|
Mace Knight | 8
|
Trident Knight | 6
|
Javelin Knight | 4
|
Level Bosses | HP
------------------+-----
Whispy Woods | 60
(Level 1) |
|
Paint Roller | 60
(Level 2) |
|
Mr. Shine | 30
& |
Mr. Bright | 30
(Level 3) |
|
Kracko | 60
(Level 4) |
|
Heavy Mole | 60
(Level 5) |
|
Meta Knight | 60
(Level 6) |
|
King Dedede | 100
(Level 7) |
|
Nightmare Orb | 600
& |
Nightmare Wizard | 56
(Level 8) |
|
a ha ha. That's where you are very wrong. The NES version is way better if you've played both of them. Remakes are always worse than the original. Sure, the graphic may be better, but that's hardly any reason for it to be better. Egg catcher and crane game were way better than the new mini games, Ball ability lost all of it's original good use due to the new mechanics, the attacks are way weaker, the music doesn't have the same charm that the new version has, Dedede is super ugly in this version, Backdrop's new mechanics suck compared to the old ones, stone and needle have become easier to use which makes the game easier, (which sucks) Fire and ice take extra long to shoot, in butter buildings the got rid of the spinny castle for the parts where you just stand around and wait for the clouds to leave. (also left out of the FAQ in the first post) All bosses and mini bosses move slower, Phan Phan is way easier than Rolling Turtle. The list goes on and on.
Some of your points can be seen from a positive site.
I never played any of the retro consoles, so I'm not experienced at how much better the NES version is.
It's unfortunate that they are porting Kirby Super Star to the DS, since it's also gonna be ruined in remaking. God only knows how dumbed down the Great Cave offensive and Gourmet Race will be.
-___-
Am I the only one who likes remakes?
I see, the movie times aren't as comparable as I thought because of lag, missing rooms, timing differences and so on...
By looking at the TAS of the NES version, it looks pretty clean and fast though (for example the boss tower was very fast, like 10 sec).
Floogal, thanks for the guide.
So it should be possible to kill Mr Bright/Mr Shine in 3 Hi-jump kills already...
Which version is your guide based on? (USA, JPN, EUR?)
Yeah, High Jump was really improved in this game. Just make sure you're very close (or very far, or underneath) when you jump, or the weaker "clouds" will get them instead.
I played on the north american versions of the games.
Oh yeah, didn't this remake make all the secret switches the same color? I liked it better when they were different colors. And why does Kirby sound like a horse when he inhales? What's up with the deal with that, huh?
And Metaknight throwing the candy! Whatever happened to that? I liked being confused about whose side he was on.
And no demo, so no "Kirby is brave when he has a sword!"...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
No MUGG, you aren't the only one to like remakes :D
I'm not sure but I think I didn't play the game (I always mix up the names of the Kirby games, Amazing Mirror is the only name I remember), however it might be better to use the remake, because better graphic makes the run more beautiful to watch.
What I however find difficult in Kirby games is that only a small percentage of abilities can be used in a tas. So you should think about what abilities you can use without losing time.
Kirby runs can be very entertaining - if you use as much abilities as possible. Of course that's not only thing to care about, but don't use one ability for the whole run.
You can submit runs with SRAM if you choose the correct option in VBA. That is allowed if permission is granted.
As for the intro hack thing, check out No-Intro's website, which includes patches to remove the intros from games.
http://www.no-intro.org/
IPS patches can be found here: http://arcvoreppin.free.fr/ips/
(Kirby (USA) is 0775.)
Metaknight should totally do more backflips. :P
if it doesn't slow you down, it'd be fun to watch Meta go all ninja on everyone and use combos with all of his attacks, as to just slashing everyone.
Besides that, that was a cool run!
The kombucha mushroom people...
Sitting around all day...
I was trying to beat the boss endurance record these days and I think 3:04 is possible. I managed to save ~20 frames, but cannot finish the movie due to serious luck-manipulation problems at Dedede. He mustn't do any sucking or jumping moves for 10 consecutive hits. I'm posting the unfinished movie here now, maybe someone else succeeds in the future.
unfinished movie3:05 record at nicovideo
I used the japanese ROM since the predecessor did as well, and I didn't want any damage differences and such issues...
Here is a WIP of my upcoming new any%.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/565683136/knid%20mugg.vbm
This is of much higher technical quality than my first attempt which was rushed and unoptimized. This movie completes the first 3 worlds and saves 3015 frames.
Also, here's a useful lua script for TASing: http://pastebin.com/y7FHHFD1
I like to leave projects alone for awhile after posting WIPs, so expect me to work on something else for now, maybe Kirby's Dreamland or something?
Well, I managed to watch it on the emulator (since my school blocks nicovideo, and I'll be here another hour), and I think it looks really good! It's very fast-paced and entertaining. I think you should submit it. The only issues are that it starts from SRAM (which is OK if you have a judge's permission and have a verification movie) and that it's the Japanese version (which must also be fine, because your published Amazing Mirror any% used the Japanese version of the game).
I realized I never posted about this before, but I think we should dig it up again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOjTUxDNnr0
mapler and sirVG said they could kill Frosty in 4 hits. However, on both my (E) cartridge and on emulator (testing (U) and (J)), I always needed 5 hits. The damage decrements 5 per hit and Frosty has 22 HP.
So it goes 22,17,12,7,2,0.
It is not caused by strange hitboxes or timing. Each hit in mapler's video does more than 5 damage.
Why?
Does it have something to do with bouncing off the wall at a certain angle? Maybe if you were to watch Frosty's HP in RAM Watch and try a bunch of different angles, you could manage to do what he did.
Does it have something to do with bouncing off the wall at a certain angle? Maybe if you were to watch Frosty's HP in RAM Watch and try a bunch of different angles, you could manage to do what he did.
I already said, it has nothing to do with hitboxes, spacing or timing. Mapler basicly used burning on Frosty head on, and then crashed into the wall several times. There's no spacing involved whatsoever in that. But yet, he can get him in 4 hits every time and I can't.
---
It turns out my ROM is a version that had its hack intro removed (hIr00).
Therefore maybe there's some weird version difference because of this, which causes Frosty to be killed in 5 instead of only 4 hits.
It would be cool if everyone who has a cartridge of the US version tested if they can kill Frosty in 4 hits or in 5.
1. There is no version revisions in any region.
2. I found what the theory was. I knew I mentioned something about it at SDA. Found the post.
According to romscout and sir_VG, hitting the ice block and Frosty at the same time guarantees extra damage. there seems to be an additional source as well, since I've gotten 4 hit fights without that, but looking back I ALWAYS had a 4 hit fight when I hit the ice block.
For future reference, the iceblock does not have a connection to the 4 hits, because Frosty's health in the video depletes more than in my tests. It really must be
- something about the feRAM/SRAM
- a glitch that sometimes happens depending what you do before entering the fight, but I never got 4 hits no matter what I did. Maybe I didn't try hard enough
- A 1.0/1.1/1.2 version difference. Even though Sir_VG said there are no such versions for KNID... Some players such as Dezero never got 4 hits on their US version, whereas players such as Sir_VG and mapler have gotten 4 hits easily on their own US version.
I would have to say that all previous posts about this game not being worthwhile to TAS because it's just a reskin of Kirby's Adventure are a bunch of hot air. I see your point, but I just don't think it's a good reason.
I'd have to say that throwing a remake out because "the original is better" is one of the worst excuses you can do for speedrunning. Think about the number of crappy games that are speedrun just because... For all we know, this game could have some other exclusive glitches and tricks that aren't around in the NES version- ones that will never be found because someone doesn't think it's worthwhile. (Some remakes are actually BETTER for speedruns. Take WWHD for instance- only 2 minutes slower without having to deal with Tingle tuner nonsense... and getting faster.) Also, given the lack of the UFO glitch, that should be enough for it to count as a different category in its own right.
On top of that, why aren't there official submitted versions of the boss rush and Meta Knightmare? It would be SOOO easy to make a verification video for that- taking about 3 hours for a casual RTA speedrunner like myself. I mean for Pete's sake, we have a verification for Chrono Trigger New Game + and that had to have taken a lot longer.
[/rant]
As soon as I'm done with my current TAS, this will be my next project. I should easily be able to beat the current RTA WR of 44:00 by at least a minute. IDK exactly how much; I need to get Kobral's splits to find out. (and I will use his current WR video for reference)
I'm running this whether you like it or not and I'm going to try my hardest to make it interesting to watch.
